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Glim

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 2:55 AM

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Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia

There will be a few, but to start with...

Quote:

-750 DR (3109 NY)

An order of powerful Netherese wizards takes up residence amid an unexcavated section of the Melairbode, in what is now known as the third level of Undermountain. The name of the outpost is lost to time, though some scholars refer to it as the Sargauth Enclave. They begin experimenting on mantles, magical fields similar to elven mythals.

Any further info on Sargauth would be very helpful.

Quote:

-681 DR (3178 NY) – Year of Nightmares

Netherese arcanists emigrate to the Demiplane of Nightmares. The magical energies of that nightmarish realm transform their descendants into an assortment of horribly twisted creatures known as the Night Parade.

Conflicting lore with...

Quote:

-645 DR (3214 NY) – Year of Maleficent Counsel

Birth of Shadow of Netheril. He would be the first to theorize the idea of demiplanes. His research would become banned and assassins would be hired to slay him for his theories. However, with the backing of Karsus, he would publish conclusive proof of the existence of demiplanes, and the first discovered demiplane would be named after him, the Demiplane of Shadow. With this proof, Shadow would no longer be hunted for his theories.

Any ideas which would be more valid and why?

serbiris

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 3:08 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia

If I recall, Sargauth is somewhere in Undermountain, so any sourcebooks about that should mention it. It probably has a great deal to do with Halaster's work there - Undermountain is a quasi-mythallar after all.
Also Skullport (1998) apparently?

As for the conflicting lore... uh, what's the conflict exactly? If it's because the arcanists travelled to a demiplane before Shadow proved their existence, that was probably because the proto-Night Parade had no clue what they were doing.

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Glim

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 3:11 AM

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Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia

serbiris wrote:

As for the conflicting lore... uh, what's the conflict exactly? If it's because the arcanists travelled to a demiplane before Shadow proved their existence, that was probably because the proto-Night Parade had no clue what they were doing.

Ah, that would certainly be possible. I suppose they never really "came back" to be able to say, "Hey, we discovered a Demi-Plane!" and so Shadow could still do the actual research and such.

Glim

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 5:25 AM

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Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia

Still on the subject of Shadow's research, anyone have any reference as to when he did actually manage to prove his theories correct?

-Cloak-and-Dagger-

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 11:09 AM

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Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England

The only reference to Sargauth I can see is a Wainwright in Battledale.

The first of your conflicts comes from the novel "The Night Parade". The second from "Netheril - Empire of Magic". That doesn't say the date. GHotR puts the discovery of the Shadow Plane at -553. No mention of the former in that btw.

IronAngel

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 12:23 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Grand History mentions the Night Parade thing at -681 like Glim says. You must be using the fan/freelancer-made compilation that was then taken and expanded by WotC into the official release?

I didn't find the Shadow Plane mention myself, neither -645 nor -553. :lol:

They seem two unrelated cases, either way.

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-Cloak-and-Dagger-

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 12:39 PM

Player

Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England

...I don't know what I have! Something completely different to you obviously. By Brian R. James. It certainly looks real...

IronAngel

Posted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 13:21 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

He started the project unofficially and there's a PDF floating about of a very late version of it. But then WotC bought it and published an official hardcover (which is where they revealed all that shocking lore about the 4e changes that got people riled up, as a teaser at the end). I have the physical copy. One of the few D&D products truly worth its price in lore, in fact. As Wikipedia says:

Quote:

Brian got his first big break with the creation of his "Grand History of the Realms" timeline compilation that started in the late 90s. Utilizing his website at the time, he compiled lore from many disparate sources into easily referenced PDFs documents that allowed fans to reference each of his entries. This work eventually caught the eye of senior Wizards of the Coast developers, was purchased by the company and then published as a print sourcebook: The Grand History of the Realms.

But yeah, the PDF is mostly right too, but some things have clearly been tweaked and there's a lot more.

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TheMadMage

Posted: Tue, Nov 06 2012, 23:31 PM

Player

Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Location: In a vast library far to the south.

Sarguath is Skullport nowadays. The seven skulls were seven archmages of the city. The third level of undermountain IS skullport as well.

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