AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Okay, so after I read through the Drow Arcane Archer thread, I was wondering what's the deal with Half Elf Arcane Archers? I've recently made one, and I've got a pretty thorough backstory for him, but is he granted this arcane archery through solonor (And does that mean I must praise solonor) or is it okay to say his elven parent taught him?

Quote:

Requirements

To qualify to become an arcane archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race

Elf or half-elf.
Base Attack Bonus

+6.
Feats

Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells

Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneArcher.htm

Doesn't say you must follow Solonor, but naturally if your elf you would or at least pay your respects. When it comes to half-elfs, they do what they want. Not a divine class.

I will point out that a half elf should embrace their elven side more than their human side. Arcane Archery is an elven art and wouldn't be taught to just any half elf.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I will point out that a half elf should embrace their elven side more than their human side. Arcane Archery is an elven art and wouldn't be taught to just any half elf.

As it is with any elven prestige class. Usually.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I will point out that a half elf should embrace their elven side more than their human side.

Not true or necessary

Magiros wrote:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I will point out that a half elf should embrace their elven side more than their human side. Arcane Archery is an elven art and wouldn't be taught to just any half elf.

As it is with any elven prestige class. Usually.

Not entirely true, things change, and so do opinions and viewpoints. So its not a requirement that an arcane archer worship any elven god, or adhere to elven beliefs, cultural tendenices, or lifestyles. I suppose, at the very least the only thing they might have to do is provide a plausible excuse for how they learnt the skills, and even then thats just good RP guidelines, and not an actual requirement.

Edit: Tormak Ninjaed!

I said "should", not "shall". Thank you.

Actually, on a similar vein, I'm curious, what's the lore behind half-drow arcane archers? Do they need to get it from Selvetarm too? Or can they not learn arcane archery at all? Or... something else?...

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I said "should", not "shall". Thank you.

Even then I doubt half elves would be drawn more toward one side than the other. They'd have some sort of motivation for choosing to embrace their human side over their elven side and vice versa. Seems like a conscious choice.

That isn't my point, though. Arcane Archery is taught by elves. They're notoriously picky about who they choose to impart their secrets to.

But meh. If people want to make arcane archers that hate elves and such, more power to them.

The1Kobra wrote:

Actually, on a similar vein, I'm curious, what's the lore behind half-drow arcane archers? Do they need to get it from Selvetarm too? Or can they not learn arcane archery at all? Or... something else?...

Half-drow abominations don't deserve it.

He kids (sort of). Half-drow can do it mechanically (it's even stated in the sourcebooks directly that yes half-drow qualify). If they were Eilistraeean, it would come via Solonor, if they were evil, then Selvetarm.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I said "should", not "shall". Thank you.

Still not true.

The vengefull half-elf AA who despises his elven bretheren and seeks to prove himself to be better than them in their own Art makes for an interesting, if not novel, character concept.

Half-elves have elven blood, and that is all you need really. Pazio has this description: "Those who have trained as both rangers and wizards excel as arcane archers, although other multiclass combinations are not unheard of. Arcane archers may be found wherever elves travel, but not all are allies of the elves. Many, particularly half-elven arcane archers, use elven traditions solely for their own gain, or worse, against the elves whose very traditions they adhere to."

Yeah, QPR, that's what the rules say. But on Amia, there's another snip of lore that's added on top of the rules, which is a bit contrary to that: On Amia, AA ability is a gift from one of the Seldarine, all of whom are enthusiastically partisan towards elves and tel'Quessir culture and society. The rulebook you're quoting wouldn't have been able to account for that, and so it's based on information that doesn't adequately describe the Amia environment.

So there's a bit of a contradiction. In my (obviously completely unofficial) opinion, either the lore should be changed so that AA is separated from the Seldarine, or the class should be somehow altered so that elf-hating half-elves (or even elf-hating elves!) aren't eligible. Obviously, the first would be easier than the second.

The art was a gift from the seldarine to the elves, but they don't control who the elve steach it to from there. i.e. AA surface Drow.

It sounds like the "gift" part of the class description for Amia is being mistaken for a divine blessing. As far as I can tell it was only originally a divine gift from the gods to the first elf/drow to learn it. After that, it became a technique that passed from mentor to student without any involvement from the respective gods. It's not a gift in the same manner as blessings for a cleric are a gift. It's a gift in that, their people wouldn't have learned it in the past without the gods. Solonor doesn't personally oversee and approve each decision an arcane archer makes when choosing a student to teach. I imagine he trusts his people enough to teach it to those worthy of it. I'm sure there are those who don't do a thorough job of making sure the student is worthy, too. It's bound to happen.

That's just my take on it!

Jes wrote:

It sounds like the "gift" part of the class description for Amia is being mistaken for a divine blessing. As far as I can tell it was only originally a divine gift from the gods to the first elf/drow to learn it. After that, it became a technique that passed from mentor to student without any involvement from the respective gods. It's not a gift in the same manner as blessings for a cleric are a gift. It's a gift in that, their people wouldn't have learned it in the past without the gods. Solonor doesn't personally oversee and approve each decision an arcane archer makes when choosing a student to teach. I imagine he trusts his people enough to teach it to those worthy of it. I'm sure there are those who don't do a thorough job of making sure the student is worthy, too. It's bound to happen.

That's just my take on it!

I always assumed something like this. Similar to Prometheus (I think it was Prometheus) and his gift of fire to the humans. It was a divine gift, but from then on out its use was simply taught to the next generation and the next and so on.

I didn't mean to imply that Solonor himself stamped an approval or denial in some sort of cosmic AA request thread whenever a new elf tried to learn AA tricks. Rather, I just meant that unlike in the raw rules, there's a religious component to AA teachings on Amia, which would naturally lead elves to treat them more carefully than any other random elven knowledge.

It wouldn't be like Prometheus & fire, since the elves have no god of fire who teaches them that elves and elven fire-making techniques are uniquely awesome and appropriate only to elves. They do have a god of archery, who does teach them those things about AA techniques. It's not impossible for those secrets to be passed along to an elf-hating half-elf (or elf-hating elf, even), it's just really unlikely, in my opinion. The elves of the FR are very big on keeping their cultural secrets exclusive to members of their culture: High Magic, the Crown Wars and the Descent, the creation of the fey'ri, et cetera. All of these are aspects of elven culture/art/history that the elves just simply don't allow to spread to outsiders. They seem like common knowledge, because they're available for any and every player to read about in any of a dozen rulebooks, but (like was said in another thread re: knowledge of the afterlife) it's a mistake to assume that just because *you* can read it in a book, that means your *character can read it in a book.

My argument is that, if Arcane Archery was taught to the elves by the gods, it would have been treated by the elves as something sacred, something not to be squandered on those who have no respect for the gods that gifted it to them in the first place. Like all cultural norms, there would be exceptions, but they'd be notable simply by virtue of their rarity. An elf-hating AA should be considered to be roughly equivalent to a tiefling paladin.

Just my opinion, as always.

Irrelevant whether or not an elf would teach Arcane Archery to a half-elf. It's possible to learn it entirely on your own. Just easier with guidance, like all things.

WYSIWYG in terms of class type. Is this a divine class? No. Is it race restricted? yes. Thus it's not akin to a divine classes means of gaining power. It really is just that simple folk. Anyway, I think this has all been explained. All that can come from further discussion here is conjecture on the point of "would a pc/npc teach it?" which is up to the player/dm, and not someone elses personal opinion.

Half Elf Arcane Archer

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