AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hey there.

I would greatly appreciate some help with research regarding certain types of undead, as i'm preparing to make a DC request of some complexity. I'm still somewhat new to FR lore, so bear with me. I would also appreciate recommendations as to where should i look for more detailed information in source books.

Let's start with uh, an easy question. How does actual summoning work?

On Amia everything is labeled as "Summoned", and i haven't really encountered anything that explains the processes involved [or the duality of it], and i suspect there are two of those involved with undead specifically. Meaning, you can name animating a corpse "summoning" but that isn't accurate. Summoning is by my understanding calling a being to serve you, that is located elsewhere.

So am i correct in my assumption, that necromancers animate/create lesser kinds of undead, but are largely limited to summoning the more powerful undead? Again i assume that i.e. things like Winterwights are perhaps beyond a mortal's capability to create on their own, have been created beforehand by whatever being/force, and the necromancer only performs a summoning ritual.

In my request i will be focusing on one of such powerful undead, and so i need to research summoning rituals in greater detail to use in roleplaying and background story for the purposes of my request.Then again, at this moment i have found no information on the undead i'm looking at [Death and Repose domain undead] because they seem to be Amia specific inventions. If anyone has any information on these summons, or perhaps has a character that can summon one of them, i would be very grateful if i could at least take a look at its infocard.

Well, some spells actually do say "Create" in the spell title, so it's not true that everything is labeled as "Summon" like you claimed.

If you are planning to request something though, maybe RPing up with Tarkuul people would be both beneficial to getting this answered and helping you with your request. But that's just my two cents!

First of all, nothing is impossible, somethings are just highly unlikely.

However, there are plenty of ways undead creatures come to be, certain type of death, plague, etc.. I highly recommend you to look at the library forums here, there is several IC created books about Undead, their metabolism and how they are created, they are based to those source books.

If you want to ignore the IC books created, then I would recommend Libris Mortis the Book of the Undead, plus there are other books you can find some necromancy matters, but the book I mentioned is all focused on necromancy/undead.

Summoning an undead depends on where it is summoned, however, undead creatures one way or another are usually tied to negative energy plane which sustains and powers them. As conjuration terms summoning usually refers to a creature brough elsewhere to the plane you are, once they are killed, they merely are send back to the plane they came, not really dead. But you can't summon the same creature again before it has healed if it "died" in battle.

Animation is not summoning, as the caster is making a ritual to create undead creature, basically you have corpse which you decide to animate bu utilising a necromancy ritual and empowering the dead corpse with negative energy, which then does your bidding and once destroyed, is destroyed as well.

Depending in the form of ritual, the necromancer can either animate the corpse, or, if catching the soul of the body, forcing it to remain in this world and doing his bidding. Usual to have skeletons, zombies or incorpreal undead created this way, the lesser undeads.

What comes to the power of the undead, the more powerful undead created, the harder it is to control. As well some undead through aging become more tied to negative plane and thus through the age they gain more potent abilities, a wight might end up being very powerful wight if remaining in existance long enough.

Also undead are divided into sentient and non-sentient undead, the former being harder to control and create.

This is something I remember from playing my necromancer quite some time ago, hope it is helpful.

Thanks Magiros, that's some good clarifications.

Let me sketch what i actually need to start my request then.

First of all, the nature of my DC request is going to be either a regular, or an epic spell, which will summon a creature normally unavailable to my class, but one that already exists in the module. I am looking at Death and Repose domain summons, which have a rather broad selection of unique summons [12 in total, to be precise], but i will be boldly aiming at one of four from the highest level range - 22-26, and 27+.

The problem is, i don't know anything about these four undead, except 2 names: Horror Knight and Failed Hunfer, the latter i have determined is most likely a mummy.

So you see, it's rather difficult to request something i know nothing about;]

If someone could chip in with at least the basic description of these four summons, their names, types, infocards, abilities perhaps, or any lore that they are directly based on - i would be all set, and could start devising a way for my character to summon or create it.

The Hunefer is weird. What I was able to find on it basically put it as the 'Mummy of a demigod whose remains haven't fully gone to the astral realm' - which just seems an odd thing to be summoning full stop. That is at least what this link says about them.

A failed one might put it at a lesser degree, but still summoning a demi god, in essence apparently.

It is also very possible there is no lore about them, or anything specific. Which would enable you, with help of a DM, find out through a Quest or IC interaction. Rather than asking here, I would reccomend you start IC to find about theses creatures your necromancer desires.

He might have heard of name and results in finding more about them, a DM can help, I would think Glim is the DM in Tarkuul and knows about these things. This way you gather background for your request, RP and IC research which is far more prefered than OOC finding out and would more likely be seen as a very positive thing upon your request, possible giving more thumps up even.

Ask a DM to help and go IC, thats the way to go and very ejoyable! I am constantly bothering DM's, for their annoyance.

Well my first thought on this matter would be to seek this knowledge IC in Tarkuul.

But as some would argue that it's beating the purpose of the Lore forum.. here's what I did when I was creating an undead. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=67887&p=1122311&hilit I invented the ritual, did some RP and created what I wanted. Though it is not as powerful as a Winterwight, the point is in creativity. You will hardly find the written rituals anywhere. I was going to make a compendium of rituals for undead creation and summoning IC but I was told by some DM that people should and may invent their own rituals, so it kind of beat the purpose. As a rule of a thumb, the more people you get involved in your request or quest for knowledge, the better.

That's all clear and understandable, guys, not to say obvious;] I've been here for 2 years after all.

Still, i -need- the basic information about the summons in question, so that my character knows what she's after. If a DM can provide it, either here or ingame, at least name and type, i can go from there.

As for OOC, there's also a matter of balance, and no matter how well designed and executed my request might be, some summons may simply be out of my reach - like Winterwight for example, and those 27+ Death/Repose undead might actually turn out to be not far off in power.

Rest assured, i do intend to make an excellent request, background, IC research, rituals, DM interaction - all included and to the best of my abilities. I do however, as stated before, need a place to start, name and type, and at least a hint of a green light so that i'm not barking at the wrong tree.

I managed to determine that there is only one pool of undead summons, for Death domain [as Repose always summons outsider, duh], and it's not the one listed in the sidebar.

So, no Revenant Bride *sob*, Failed Hunefer or Horror Knight, unless they are for some reason still in the haks?

If not, the remaining undead are well documented in Libris Mortis, so i have no further questions.

Summoning undead

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