I ran through Bendir Dale today and was thoroughly impressed with the changes. Just want to give a hats off to the people up top!
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| [OOC] Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=84988 |
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| Author: | Commie [ Wed, Mar 23 2016, 16:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
That Guy wrote: In addition, I'd like to ask what the rules are right now for the area outside Bendir's Gates? Issues are beginning to occur and my character, being the Marshall has to enforce the rules. So... in order to do that, I need the DM team to please tell us what they are currently so I can roleplay it properly. I'm not asking what the proposed future ruling is, what is it right now, today, as it stands before anything is changed. Thank you! DM's offered differing opinions a few pages ago. I'm also still waiting for clarification. |
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| Author: | That Guy [ Wed, Mar 23 2016, 17:11 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Commie wrote: That Guy wrote: In addition, I'd like to ask what the rules are right now for the area outside Bendir's Gates? Issues are beginning to occur and my character, being the Marshall has to enforce the rules. So... in order to do that, I need the DM team to please tell us what they are currently so I can roleplay it properly. I'm not asking what the proposed future ruling is, what is it right now, today, as it stands before anything is changed. Thank you! DM's offered differing opinions a few pages ago. I'm also still waiting for clarification. Yup, just wanted to hear an official ruling is all. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Wed, Mar 30 2016, 5:05 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
That Guy wrote: Commie wrote: That Guy wrote: In addition, I'd like to ask what the rules are right now for the area outside Bendir's Gates? Issues are beginning to occur and my character, being the Marshall has to enforce the rules. So... in order to do that, I need the DM team to please tell us what they are currently so I can roleplay it properly. I'm not asking what the proposed future ruling is, what is it right now, today, as it stands before anything is changed. Thank you! DM's offered differing opinions a few pages ago. I'm also still waiting for clarification. Yup, just wanted to hear an official ruling is all. been a week. any official word? |
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| Author: | dvdb35 [ Wed, Mar 30 2016, 5:26 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
I ran through Bendir Dale today and was thoroughly impressed with the changes. Just want to give a hats off to the people up top!
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| Author: | Commie [ Sun, Apr 03 2016, 16:23 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
msheeler wrote: I operate under the assumption that you can not PvP in front of any NPC with out a DM to oversee that NPC. To do that would be considered meta-gaming the NPC. This, in my opinion, would be doubly true if that NPC was a guard NPC, since it's that NPC's job to ensure that the peace is kept. TormakSaber wrote: Bendir's laws do not apply outside the "inner walls". It is not metagaming any guards to PvP outside of the inner walls where the racial gates restrict entrance. Do not expect DMs to enforce this, because it is not a rule, IC or OOC. Did we decide on who is right here? It's been a while now. |
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| Author: | That Guy [ Sun, Apr 03 2016, 18:04 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Yes, echoing Commie's thoughts, I asked a couple weeks ago for clarification. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Sun, Apr 03 2016, 19:43 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Yes and I've been a part of and bore witness to pvp and threats of pvp outside. Really need clarification. I've just been sort of avoiding the dale since I don't know if I can meet force with force in front of the static unmoving guards that ignore ppl getting attacked. |
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| Author: | Kudark [ Sun, Apr 03 2016, 20:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Ask yourself, would your character do that in Cordor or Kohlingen, if someone was throwing threats around? Then why would they do it in Bendir Dale, when they have no authority? Other than self defense if attacked, or asked to help by a Bendir citizen, there's no call for PvP by non-citizens, unless they are starting it. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Sun, Apr 03 2016, 21:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Kudark wrote: Ask yourself, would your character do that in Cordor or Kohlingen, if someone was throwing threats around? Yes. Hence the need for clarification because people are deliberately dancing around this misruling |
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| Author: | Commie [ Sun, Apr 03 2016, 21:15 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Hell just yesterday I watched some people buffing up get disjointed outside the wall and in front of guards. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Mon, Apr 04 2016, 7:49 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
I stand by what I said. PvP is legal outside the racial gates. This was the agreement the team discussed and put into effect when the Bendir walls were allowed to continue to exist. |
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| Author: | Kamina [ Mon, Apr 04 2016, 8:30 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
TormakSaber wrote: I stand by what I said. PvP is legal outside the racial gates. This was the agreement the team discussed and put into effect when the Bendir walls were allowed to continue to exist. And by this, PC militia are able to enforce the outer-gate laws/rules without DM supervision, right? |
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| Author: | TheCortroy [ Mon, Apr 04 2016, 18:35 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
PC's can enforce whatever they want, anywhere. I mean, ICly we could say any area is under our control. Does that make it true? I prefer just to let these things roll in game instead of decisions by a DM team. (which I'll ignore and do what I want anyways.) |
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| Author: | MisterLich [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 6:07 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
TormakSaber wrote: Bendir's laws do not apply outside the "inner walls". It is not metagaming any guards to PvP outside of the inner walls where the racial gates restrict entrance. Do not expect DMs to enforce this, because it is not a rule, IC or OOC. http://prntscr.com/c75zkn Can someone explain the discrepancy here? A DM going against another DM's word with NPC's. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 6:17 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
ant alarm and about 50 extra npc's put the area on edge. it's different now. |
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| Author: | Elyon [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 12:20 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
TormakSaber wrote: Bendir's laws do not apply outside the "inner walls". It is not metagaming any guards to PvP outside of the inner walls where the racial gates restrict entrance. Do not expect DMs to enforce this, because it is not a rule, IC or OOC. As it's what we've been going with for the past few months now, I think we can conclude a couple of things: 1) The DMs are not expected to enforce this, but they can if they wanted too. That's what I've seen pretty much throughout my time on Amia. A DM would voluntarily possess the guard and react when they see something happen. 2) Someone mentioned the carts in the general question topic. The issue about the carts was that they were suggested to move because we can't have NPCs and PCs both enforce the rules outside the racial gates. With Tormy's rule, as the NPCs aren't doing it, nothing would have changed aside from what you see visually on your screen. Therefore the carts wouldn't need to be repositioned. 3) This is how things worked before the major Bendir update: Mr. Hackums wrote: A player is metagaming if they walk up to an NPC guard and flaunt the fact that they're banned, and they can't do anything about it, or anything silly like that. 'Anything silly': Would this also hold true for the specific incident that happened a few days ago? 4) Mr. Hackums wrote: A player is metagaming if they are a banned individual and enter the Dale without DM supervision. And, a player is metagaming if they fight inside the Dale walls without Dm supervision. (A pretty obvious one)Can a DM clarify these points? |
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| Author: | rafaelmacgyver [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 13:30 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Commie wrote: ant alarm and about 50 extra npc's put the area on edge. it's different now. Yes this... The entire area is on a estate of emergency and full of guards. |
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| Author: | MisterLich [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 16:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
I mean Tormak literally like 5 posts up said: I stand by what I said. PvP is legal outside the racial gates. This was the agreement the team discussed and put into effect when the Bendir walls were allowed to continue to exist. So I mean. Also what incident a few days ago are you talking about...? |
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| Author: | Commie [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 18:58 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
If a dm is on and happens to oversee the npcs and plays them then that's what you get. You can still fight out there in lieu of that control. |
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| Author: | Jes [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 19:44 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Militia PCs in the area can indeed still try to keep the peace. My hin Pebbles can tell you to stop fighting and go away, but it's not against the rules OOC for you to do so anyway. That's the difference, I think. It's not metagaming to fight there. It's just IC'ly poor form to pick fights, especially when we're currently in a state of emergency with most of the population evacuated.  And the OOC agreement with the walls is, if I understand right, that (under normal circumstances) we can't ban people for lingering/fighting there. The current state is just a little different than it was in April, with the DM plot. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 19:52 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Yeah. If you want safety and bendir law "official" enforcement you need to be inside. If you're outside and a dm is on you might get interrupted by a silver dragon or guard, but its just normal pvp rules out there. Silver Dragons and Felldrakes arnt gonna enforce wacky bendir laws or bans outside either. Just stomp troublemakers like any high level npc. |
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| Author: | #StraightOutaAvernus [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 21:39 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Yeah. The Dale is currently safe by the virtue that there are guards on alert to lockdown the entire area. If you pose a 'threat' to the dale, that's different than the law being enforced. Then again -- the player base is probably by-and-large lacking in the 'common sense' department to take this approach; so I'll clarify by what I see that Bendir is lawless outside the gates, but if it's armed to the teeth it's armed to the teeth so don't bite more than you can chew. Regardless, the guards outside would and should only really 'realistically' bother interluding if you pose a direct threat to the dale imho. If you fight it's just adventurers being stupid and fighting outside the city, just because 'they can', in the middle of a crisis. With that said; I'm only personally of this opinion (the one that NPCs should care at all) under the condition that the Silver Dragons stay there -- and that's because as the Lawfully aligned guards of a Lawful Neutral/Lawful Good/Neutral Good settlement it would be completely asinine if they willfully stood aside while you said "hurr I will destroy the dale" or use risky AoEs like Wail. It's if people/DMs shove you out 'after' this clears up (read as: since Bendir is safe now, about a week tops) that is something to bitch about. |
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| Author: | Jes [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 21:49 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
Understandable, yes! Once the DM plot threat is averted, things will cool down. Till then, don't take the PC (or even DM-possessed NPC in my opinion) response to random adventurer aggression as the norm. Just bear with us as we try to realistically go into overprotective-mode for our generally vulnerable home! We realize that we have to be mindful of the terms the DMs gave us for the walls. Namely: TormakSaber wrote: Bendir's laws do not apply outside the "inner walls". It is not metagaming any guards to PvP outside of the inner walls where the racial gates restrict entrance. Do not expect DMs to enforce this, because it is not a rule, IC or OOC.
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| Author: | Commie [ Thu, Aug 18 2016, 23:26 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
alternative solution |
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| Author: | No_Dice_13 [ Fri, Aug 19 2016, 1:39 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trying to reach out to the Bendir Dale player base |
From what i recall msheeler mobed the gates closer so shady types can have an alternate route to bypass the Dale all together and that Dale laws can be enforeced in the outer wall area. That said it diesnt mean you can't still come in and start trouble but expect retaliation IC actions will get IC consequences. And like others have said we have an increase in protection due to rp events but in no way can you expect the winyans and kohligen npcs to endorce Dale laws they are there for the protection of the Dale as part of the event that is all if DM decides to step in and take over that is their right. Be smart with your pvp folks if you are gonna come in and start pvp and lose then whine about it then don't come and start it I am upswt that things have to escalate to this everytine soneone doesn't like the outcome of what happens. It is just a game have fun with ut if you are evil and you lose don't whine about it be clever and get your revenge ICly. Ilike playing my evil toons as much as I do my others hell Dicey was evil he did stuff only a handful knew about. I get that it is frustrating that the evil network on amia isn't as high as the good folk but how do ecpect DMs to want to get involved when everytime this happens it dtarts another debate with the same issues each time. Also don't forget these DMs are working overtime to make the game more fun spending their own free time to make things enjoyable for us all and being on the Dev team has shown me that. It takes all of us a lot of time to bring in all these changes and I don't think it is nice for them to have to deal with this every other week. Now if we want this to be resolved then I sayvwe have one DM in charge of the rulings for Bendir that way there is no more confusion and what ever the result is stands. We are here to have fun so let's do that. |
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