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If you had to pick ONE underdark settlement to survive the change, which would it be?
L'Obsul 38%  38%  [ 11 ]
Nec'Perya 38%  38%  [ 11 ]
Neither - Make something new 24%  24%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 29
A Majestic Dwarf
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 27 2019, 12:51 PM 

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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Location: Wales

Hello!

As you all know, EE is coming. We don't have a definate date, but it is coming. As such the Server is changing in preparation. Some old settlements are being destroyed, others changed. Some areas are being condensed, some removed, and others added in. All to prepare the server for the move to Enhanced Edition and the prospects there in. Whilst we still have a long way to go, I am taking a poll from you guys, the players. The Question is...

If you had to pick ONE underdark settlement to survive the change, which would would it be?

Your opinions are valued, and whilst the final decision will be down to a combination of In character action, server requirements and other factors, I would like to hear your opinions about the future of the Underdark. Whichever settlement stays, we intend for it to have a more sandbox approach, with the players being able to choose their own path.

In the meantime, hang one, its going to be one hell of a ride.

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- Alvian Tegleiwalla
Nerdy Painter Elf with a Silly hat


 
      
TheLastDragonRider
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 27 2019, 19:53 PM 

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I don't like L'Obsul because of it's design and revamps of it in the past have only served to make it worse, it forces the isolation of the UD, it's not friendly to new players in the UD. It forces UD players to the surface to find what they need causing much of the UD areas and hunting grounds to go unused. Forget that the UD is not a friendly place, this is not PnP where a DM can put you in it for the sake of an adventure, we have a playerbase to consider, people that will or won't wander in and out of areas based on whether or not they can do things, find things, interact with people, and not just NPCs.

Nec'perya by comparison is small, easy to find resources, though made purposefully difficult to get to so people would have to funnel through L'Obsul, a design flaw that can easily be fixed. The dragonkin taking it over, just made it more isolated from the Underdark population. Most UD players have never even been there, a shame really, it has so much potential.

We will never have a Menzobarranzan style UD city, let's stop using it for our UD model and think smaller, more interactive, less xenophobic. We don't have the consistent playerbase.

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Kestrel Swiftwing ~ Warpriest of Tempus and Field Medic
Tagnik'zur d'Vilrath ~ l'Har'oloth zhah dro 'sohna!
Sir Khayri Aphaeleon ~ Avenger of Hoar, Knight of Kohlingen
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Shiazti Tladier ~ Shadowkin


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 27 2019, 19:59 PM 

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Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Location: Canada

TheLastDragonRider wrote:
I don't like L'Obsul because of it's design and revamps of it in the past have only served to make it worse, it forces the isolation of the UD, it's not friendly to new players in the UD. It forces UD players to the surface to find what they need causing much of the UD areas and hunting grounds to go unused. Forget that the UD is not a friendly place, this is not PnP where a DM can put you in it for the sake of an adventure, we have a playerbase to consider, people that will or won't wander in and out of areas based on whether or not they can do things, find things, interact with people, and not just NPCs.

Nec'perya by comparison is small, easy to find resources, though made purposefully difficult to get to so people would have to funnel through L'Obsul, a design flaw that can easily be fixed. The dragonkin taking it over, just made it more isolated from the Underdark population. Most UD players have never even been there, a shame really, it has so much potential.

We will never have a Menzobarranzan style UD city, let's stop using it for our UD model and think smaller, more interactive, less xenophobic. We don't have the consistent playerbase.


This.

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Drakos_Vek
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 28 2019, 5:21 AM 

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Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Inb4 Galeonson’s mega-post.

Nec’perya to me, is far more isolated then L’Obsul. A city run by the Llothite matriarchy is far less welcoming to Underdark players than the council of L’Obsul, which allows players of orogs, svirfneblin and duergar to come in and carve their own path.

L’Obsul is my preferred option by a good few miles, that said, I do believe the city is in need of a design overhaul to make things a little more convient. Maybe something like new room for a second drow house to establish itself or bringing the merchant district and council chambers closer together. The trade port certainly needs to be updated with a ship route to Shadowscape which was discovered by the Nec’perya playerbase.

My character can adapt to whatever happens in the end. Personally, I do not want to see either city go. Nec’perya still has a lot of roleplay potential left, especially with the plot potential left by Dusty regarding the aboleth and the true nature of the city.

That said; I’d be happy with Nec’perya if its just L’Obsul just relocating there and establishing the same political/government framework. The best of both worlds!

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Genar_Detkasa
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 28 2019, 14:51 PM 

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also inb4 Galenson, but he makes pretty good points here.

I voted L'Obsul but honestly I'm fine with whatever.

L'Obsul is good with the caveat that it does need to be a bit more easier to navigate because holy crap, I was RPing there for awhile and I still get lost when trying to find my way. At least redo the starter quests so it actually informs people about how to navigate the place and rename those goddamn zones, begone with the drow names! Doing those two as a bare minimum would already make it easier for people. And if we're doing sandbox, L'Obsul is probably going to need a bit of a rework to better enable that.

Nec'perya I'm good with but with the caveat that it needs to be more like L'Obsul. Its hard enough for a non-drow PC to get a footing, having a wholly drow dominated city won't make it easier and tbf, that's somewhat unavoidable given most PCs in the Underdark are bound to be drow regardless. But at least L'Obsul gives them a bit of handicap with existing NPC non-drow power structures. On the flipside Nec'perya is a pretty unique environ with a 'sail the waterways' focus so it can easily take L'Obsul's place as a nexus in getting people to the different dungeons around the UD which is its own kind of fun.

Something new is fine as well, as long as Amia's DM's and developers keep in mind the issues rambled on about.

PS: UD Eilistraeen Shrine + Svirfneblin village combo as a gateway to UD ftw!?

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Galenson
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 30 2019, 15:18 PM 

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Ask for a mega-post and you'll get a mega-post.

I've had some time to think about this over the weekend. Having worn many different hats on Amia in my time, this is the best I could come up with:

Objectively Speaking:

From a Designer / Developer's Perspective:

With manpower and time being so limited for the Design / Development team, its fair to say that "it is easier to add to an existing foundation then it is to either re-design an area or design an area from scratch."

L'Obsul, from a foundation's perspective, is a mess. Its not starting player friendly because there's no guidance for the starter quests like in Cordor. Its filled with racial-only areas which is a poor design philosophy for Amia this day and age: by-the-book Underdark roleplay be damned, it pushes players away from one another rather then drawing them in which is self-defeating.

L'Obsul pretty much needs to be stripped back and be re-designed in order to focus more on being "a centralised hub spot for players." This will take more developer time and mor DM time to cement this fact into the wider Amian narrative, but in my opinion would be the better choice in the long run. L'Obsul, by how it is currently set up from a narrative perspective, gives all underdark, evil, selfish and paranoid characters a chance to "make it big:" something that Nec'Perya won't do as easily. L'Obsul's needed fixes can also be implemented in stages rather then in one big hit which takes the burden off the development team.

Nec'Perya on the other hand, has a solid foundation: its moderately sized over one area (unlike L'Obsul's five areas), has all of the basic requirements and has room to expand. All that is really required is some rental houses, some job system tutors and RP developments, which can be stolen and re-purposed from L'Obsul. However, Nec'Perya will be much harder to anchor into the server's wider narrative: the rest of the Underdark revolves around L'Obsul, it would have to be re-designed to revolve around Nec'Perya which balances out the time saved from adding to Nec'Perya's foundation.

So in this respect, if you want an easier and quicker implementation, noting that design / development team resources and time are limited, Nec'Perya is the better of the two cities. However, L'Obsul will pay off better in the long run if the effort is put in.

From a Narrative perspective:

I need to start this section by saying that I do not, and will not claim to know the current DM team's vision for Amia's Underdark. Nor will I say that I speak for all players in this Underdark, as many have their own visions that may range from rather similar to radically differ from mine. However, I can take an educated guess based off server history, my participation as a player in server developments and my time as a DM on the other side of the curtain:

L'Obsul is currently a confederacy of different racial groups formed out of dependency for survival: The Orogs control the mines that supply the raw materials and the slaves who work them. the Duergar control the industry to process the raw materials. The Svirfneblin control the food and water that feeds the city and the Drow control the importing and exporting of goods to and from the city. At face value, there is a balance with the four powers keeping each other in check. Beneath that face value however, there is an entire web of intrigue, corporate espionage and covert aggression with all four major powers (as well as the minor powers, including player factions) vying to improve their control over L'Obsul. There is also alot of room in this for players of all shapes, colours and alignments to make their mark: its not centered around a specific Underdark group (ie Drow) like the previous Underdark cities. Everyone has a chance to be involved, and due to the diversity of races the DM team can be flexible in how they do it.

L'Obsul is also a large industrial city for Amia's size which means that from a wider server narrative, L'Obsul is a major player in the balance between the Amian regional powers. This is important for the longevity of the Underdark because L'Osbul will have external enemies, as well as rivals, and events that affect the "surface" will also have an impact on L'Obsul which is what we're seeing at the moment with the Majestic Dwarf's involvement.

Nec'Perya on the other hand has an extremely focused and engaging history that was fleshed out by former DMs Dusty and Lutra. It has an overarching villain (technically three villains) and carried off its own narrative hook from where Edonil left. However, in its current state, Nec'Perya is isolated from the rest of the server both in the wider narrative sense as well as the physical sense. It would take far more work both player side and DM side to establish Nec'Perya into the wider server narrative and keep it linked to modern and future events. The failing point of its predecessor cities was that they -didn't- affect the wider server narrative because the players didn't want to: I feel we would fall into the same trap with Nec'Perya.

With these points in mind, L'Obsul offers a much wider scope of narrative possibilities then Nec'Perya. The possibilities are alot less linear then Nec'Perya's established narrative however, which puts ownice on external, server wide events as well as player initiatives internally to keep L'Obsul pushing forward.

From a Drow Player's perspective:

Nec'Perya is (or will be once again) a Drow city. Naturally Drow players, who are the majority of Underdarkers on Amia thanks to different factors in the server's history, so naturally its the easier and better choice.

L'Obsul however, is a gold mine waiting to be struck by those willing to dig. It may be a confederacy now, that that doesn't mean it can't become a Hegemony with Drow in the dominant position.

From a non-Drow Player's perspective:

L'Obsul gives a non-Drow character in the Underdark greater opportunities to thrive, making it the easier and better choice.

That's not the say that Nec'Perya with a fresh perspective and hard work from the playerbase can't offer the same opportunities, but server history kind of acts as a deterrent to want to try, as the statistics are not in favour of the non-Drow.

Now, Subjectively Speaking:

Edonil should never have happened, which by extension means Nec'Perya shouldn't have happened. I criticised Dusty's decision to create a fourth Drow city after Edonil's final days despite praising his narrative storyline; it shouldn't have happened. L'Obsul should have been it from the start and as a result, my vote always has been and always will be L'Obsul.

However, L'Obsul as it stands currently needs alot of multi-directional work from the development team, DM team and playerbase to get it to what the Underdark needs it to be. It needs to be smaller, less cluttered with duplicate stores and more focused on fostering a player community rather then driving them apart.

I think if the effort was invested by the development team, the DM team and the playerbase into L'Obsul, the longer term benefits of doing so outweigh the "quick fix" that is Nec'Perya. There's more narrative scope, more connection to the wider server narrative and more opportunities available for both players and DMs alike.

But it needs to be said also that my character's faction (Vilrath), its leader (Tagnik'zur) and the majority of its members are inclined towards Nec'Perya: I can't share their decision, but if Nec'Perya is voted as the city moving forward then they will receive the same RP commitment from me for Nec'Perya as if they would if L'Obsul won out: I'm a player on the roller-coaster ride that is Amia like everyone else and I will take my pound of flesh like a dog chasing tyres as I always have.

_________________
Plays:

- Jhaeliria D'Vilrath: The Twisting Witch. Noble Daughter of House Vilrath, and gifted Illusionist

- The Scholar: Malignancy of the mind, corrupter of the spirit. The Great Game Changer

- Jack Galenson: House MD of Amia, but grumpier


 
      
Genar_Detkasa
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 30 2019, 23:55 PM 

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Location: Melbourne, Australia [GMT +10]

On top of this, L'Obsul,Nec'perya or whatever lasts should have evil surfacer NPCs present to show it is a mercantile town with visitors. I'm talking Zhentarim or Red Wizards, the kind who can't show their faces above ground. It'll build more of an atmosphere where surfacer PCs can feel, "yeah, I can do business here."

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 06 2019, 15:52 PM 

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Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya

Now I haven't played in years, but I think no matter what direction we move, it HAS to be integrated and connected to the server at large. I was always of the belief that Ultrinnan should have never been destroyed, L'Obsul was a good idea and we tried to make the best of a bad situation and in the end it was poorly executed, Edonil, again, should have never happened, and Nec was a solid attempt at world building but suffered from being so removed from the server at large.

one of my 'hopes' for Nec was that we'd be able to create a portal system and/or take over the undead ruins out in the ocean and have a drow pirate fleet where we could stage raids on coastal settlements, actually interacting with the surface instead of just being 'there' and plotting but doing nothing about anything.

I'm not too sure how to actually fix this, I'm no dev or designer, but I always wanted the underdark to be an actual player in the server at large

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 06 2019, 19:29 PM 

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Disclaimer: I haven't played in a couple years and most people probably will think my opinion to be biased:

I vote Nec'perya because I never liked L'Obsul from a design perspective. It's overly large and a bit convoluted. I spent most of my time in either Underport or Edonil (later Nec'perya) because they seemed more welcoming. Lots of more relevant players already made a lot of the other points I was going to make.

Shifting Nec'perya to a more welcoming trading hub also happened to be the end goal, even if my bitchy gal never said it openly. She did like challenging the norm, after all (just look at her backstory/Amia history/Edonil lol). Unfortunately things never progressed that far.

In the end I guess I don't care, but I'm biased towards the smaller and more manageable Nec'perya.

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Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming


 
      
Galenson
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 08 2019, 15:08 PM 

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Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

There's always room for Issen'dut'tar and Zrae'a'stra'fryn to return...

I always did appreciate dancing with Zrae'a'stra'fryn. Mostly because I won.

_________________
Plays:

- Jhaeliria D'Vilrath: The Twisting Witch. Noble Daughter of House Vilrath, and gifted Illusionist

- The Scholar: Malignancy of the mind, corrupter of the spirit. The Great Game Changer

- Jack Galenson: House MD of Amia, but grumpier


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 10 2019, 0:16 AM 

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Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Why does it have to feel small? Necy to me feels like a small outpost of 12 Drow and some abusives DDs. But I miss old Ultrinnan som im biased at that.

Yes, you should return! :)

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 12 2019, 15:07 PM 

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Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya

Sadly I no longer have the time to devote 4-8 hours every night to Amia like I did back when I was in school :lol:

That said I spent an ungodly amount of time over the years trying to make the underdark work as a fun adversary to the surface and, at times, being a sympathetic villain (I wonder how many times isen was accused of heresy...). I spent so long here that even if I don't play anymore I want to see it succeed so whoever would play can enjoy it as much as I did.

who knows maybe i'll stop in once transitioned to EE and give it a whirl

_________________
Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 12 2019, 22:32 PM 

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Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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Zanthair wrote:
Sadly I no longer have the time to devote 4-8 hours every night to Amia like I did back when I was in school :lol:

That said I spent an ungodly amount of time over the years trying to make the underdark work as a fun adversary to the surface and, at times, being a sympathetic villain (I wonder how many times isen was accused of heresy...). I spent so long here that even if I don't play anymore I want to see it succeed so whoever would play can enjoy it as much as I did.

who knows maybe i'll stop in once transitioned to EE and give it a whirl


Good to hear from old players. That is what I think is really good, old players who might not be active, still looking in here, still in their own way supporting the community by just existing and dropping by. I respect that a alot! I hope you drop by when EE hits! If only for a visit now and then! That is all fine :)

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Gremin
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 01 2019, 5:46 AM 



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Joined: 18 Aug 2011

I am trying to get back into the game now that my real life has come back to me some. As far as the UD goes, I voted scrap em both. I would like to see one server, one world for better for worse. Have not decided which character I will be making but I do want to get back into the swing of the UD, so hope to see you around.


 
      
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