AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So since I'm one of the only epic transmuters on amia this can be taken with a grain of salt but the school really doesn't seem to have any kick to it. A lot of the changes made to other schools are really great additions to the server that help a lot with versatility and make them really fun (illusion was useless before the changes and is now so cool to run). So here is my attempt at trying to increase some viability.

Amplify
- ESF: Duration changes to 2 rounds per level
Burning Hands
- SF: Applies a DoT of 1d4+1 per caster level (Maximum 5d4+5) to targets who fail the reflex save for a duration of 5 round
- GSF: DoT duration increases to 10 rounds
Entangle:
- ESF: Applies 1d4 damage per caster level (Maximum 10d4) for each round the target is in the area of effect
Expeditious Retreat:
- SF: Target gains 10% Concealment
- GSF: Target gains 15% Concealment
- ESF: Target gains 20% Concealment
Aura of Glory
- GSF: Caster gains +4 will vs spell effects
- ESF: All affected targets gain +4 will vs spell effects
Animal Buff Spells
- GSF: Target is granted +1 to resulting roll
- ESF: Target is granted +2 to resulting roll
Ultravision
- SF: +2 Spot and Search
- GSF: +4 Spot and Search
- ESF: +6 Spot and Search
Bestow Curse:
- SF: -1 AB/AC/Universal Saves
- GSF: -2 AB/AC/Universal Saves
- ESF: -3 AB/AC/Universal Saves
  - GSF: -3 to all stats
  - ESF: -4 to all stats
Greater Magic Fang:
- GSF: Animal Companion gains an onhit slow
- ESF: Animal Companion gains an onhit stun
Quillfire
- GSF: Each quill does an additional 1d6 damage
- ESF: Target rolls fort save vs slow instead of poison
Inferno
- Base Spell: Target rolls reflex vs 2d6 fire damage per 2 caster levels each round
- Crumble
- ESF: Spell affects non construct targets.
Greater Stoneskin
- Each Spell Focus adds an additional 2 points per caster level to the damage absorbed by this spell.
Flesh to Stone
- +1 Round per Spell Focus
Blackstaff
- Spell Focus adds +1 negative energy damage to the weapon, stacking with flame weapon.
- Greater Spell Focus adds +2 negative energy damage to the weapon, stacking with flame weapon
- Epic Spell Focus adds +3 negative energy damage to the weapon, stacking with flame weapon

Amplify
I'm not feeling this. Amplify is already an insanely potent level 1 spell. While it gives less skill than an epic focused caster who casts identify, identify was nerfed from the NWN standard 10+CL lore to 15 lore flat with +5 per focus, resulting in a max of 30, which is something the standard spell gives you at CL 20.

Burning hands
No, way too powerful. This effectively makes a level 1 spell do 50d4+50 damage against targets with no fire resistance.
Something more appropriate is to give it +2d4 damage per focus up to a cap of 6d4 extra, making it 11d4 total. (11-44)

Entangle
10d4 + entangle effect is too much for a level 1 spell. Considering this is an AoE spell that can be spammed, something like this would open it up to exploitation in epic hunting areas where you simply deal a crap ton of low damage numbers without any save attached. Better to do something like: +1/5 piercing damage per focus, cap at +3/15 piercing, this means it can't be exploited in higher level hunting areas by spamming it and can be negated with flat DR of +4 or more or phys resists.

Expeditious Retreat
Concealment doesn't fit in with the spell or what it does already.
Changing it so that ESF makes it 2 rounds per level is more appropriate and potentially allows you to keep the haste speed for twice as long as haste normally does, at the cost of a level 1 slot or a level 2 slot if extended. All from a level 1 spell. Saying all that, 2 rounds per level with ESF might even be too much because you normally don't burn through level 1 and 2 spells at nearly the same pace as higher ones and the mobility gain is an extreme advantage, especially since it adds another speed bonus spell that ensures that if your haste is dispelled, you keep the speed. Also it's not on the breach list, same as haste.

Aura of glory
Already a powerful spell, and also paladin only. No point in changing it at all.

Animal buff spells
Assuming you mean stuff like endurance, eagles splendor etc, then no they are already powerful enough and a change like this means that an epic transmuter can free up even more gear slots since they can cast a few spells to get +7 to every stat. +5 to all stats with maximize already makes these must have spells and extremely powerful. No buff needed or deserved on this spell, for any reason.

Ultravision
+2 spot/search per focus is fine

Bestow curse
-3/-4 with GSF/ESF is fine.
BUT tbh, this spell isn't supposed to be transmutation. It's a fuckup made by the game's devs. bestow curse is a necromancy spell, and if it is to be buffed, it should be buffed to give -3/-4 as suggested, but also be changed to necromancy as it originally should have been.

Greater magic fang
No, animal companions are already strong enough.

Quillfire
Sure, this proposed change is fine.

Inferno
2d6 per 2 CL is too powerful. At level 28, this would be 28d6 per round vs reflex.
As is inferno is fine because it's saveless. If your target doesn't have fire resist, that's consistent 2d6 fire damage for CL rounds. Upping this would potentially make it too powerful, especially when bossfarming.

Crumble
No, changing it so it can affect everyone makes it too powerful because it's sonic damage.
Adding 2d6 per focus to a cap of 6d6 bonus (21d6 total) vs constructs is fine.

Greater Stoneskin
Greater stoneskin is a spell that never made any sense to me, because stoneskin is abjuration.... yet the custom NWN dev homebrew made "greater" version of it is somehow transmutation? Just shows that the devs didn't really understand the spellschools in DND.
Changing it so the spell works the same as the epic abjuration version of stoneskin is fine. +2 HP per CL per focus, but capped at CL 15. (90 total extra HP gained vs 60 total extra HP gained on stoneskin with epic abjuration.)

Flesh to stone
Already does this, except it's only +1 round with epic focus.

Quote:

Duration has been changed to 5 rounds. Inflicts a saveless, unstacking -2 STR/CON penalty on top of the petrification effect. Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation adds +1 round.

It's fine as is.

Blackstaff
Why negative energy damage? Makes no sense as the spell's creator and namesake has no special connection to negative energy damage.
+1 magic damage, stacking with flame weapon, per focus is fine. BUT TBH the spell needs a complete rework, because vamp regen for 1 doesn't work properly all the time, and secondly has no connection at all to either Khelben or the original spirit/purpose of the spell.
IMHO it should be changed completely to instead give:
+5 Enchantment bonus, keen, magic damage scaling same as flame weapon, but NOT stacking with it. (Currently flame weapon and similar stuff, like from the master scout can give just about every type of damage except positive, magic and holy. I'm fine with adding magic damage to this spell because plenty of mobs and bosses have already been balanced against magic damage, due to IGMS and LMS spammage and it's a level 8 spell. Also having it do the same as greater magic weapon, flame weapon and keen means that it's not too painful for a sorc to potentially take the spell in place of GMW, KEEN and/or FLAME WEAPON, giving it +4 and magic damage would likely make it only ever be used by wizards.)
• CL 1 – 9 : 1d4 damage,
• CL 10 – 14 : 1d6 damage,
• CL 15 – 19 : 1d8 damage,
• CL 20 – 24 : 1d10 damage,
• CL 25+ : 1d12 damage.
All this is keep it in line with the original spirit of the spell; Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun's badass magicify weapon spell and make it a combination of blade thirst and flame weapon with a twist as it's a level 8 spell. (magic damage instead of dispelling because on hit dispel is way too powerful and currently only something that blackguards and paladins get.)

Gravemaskin wrote:

Bestow curse
-3/-4 with GSF/ESF is fine.
BUT tbh, this spell isn't supposed to be transmutation. It's a fuckup made by the game's devs. bestow curse is a necromancy spell, and if it is to be buffed, it should be buffed to give -3/-4 as suggested, but also be changed to necromancy as it originally should have been.

Well, NWN fucked up a few times. The way I've seen the changes, personally, was to give players a reason why they should take a spell focus. Not that bestiw curse is such a powerful spell, but it is one of the few spells that actually gets -something- from spell focus.
As it stands, transmutation is good enough, yeah. But there's little to no point of taking spell focuses in it. Pretty much all you get is a longer Geared Guardian, Shapechange, which I've seen in action once since, and the DC on like... three spells. Therefore, I think something should be done about it. Pretty much every scholl has a few pretty good reasons to go into ESF into them, except for Transmutation.

I'd also question how a +20 in listen is too crazy, for 2 rounds per level, when divination focus gets you a total of 32 in spot -and- listen. Admittedly,half of those are 1 round per level, but still. Additionally, Abj for example gets immunity to 4th and lower spells for turns, and illusion immunity to all spells 3rd and lower for turns. But 20 in listen (which is far inferior to spot let alone listen and spot) is too op? Strange...

Devs could search for my list of spells done in Dev forums of they're interested in my input here.

Abjuration isn't really comparable because of the spell selection they have, they deserved a buff more than any other spellschool to validate going for the spellfocus n it. As for comparing it to abjuration and illusion's level 3 immunity stuff.. I can't really agree with that either since they're both far too strong in my honest opinion and both need to be nerfed, and because it's a skill based buff.

If both ultravision and amplify are cast, with the proposed changes, you net a +26 listen, +6 spot. If you're an epic diviner on top of that, you cap out on listen completely and end up with 48 spot. Also since amplify can be extended, you have umpteen casts of it, allowing you to keep it permanently up between rest cycles, unless you're a generalist wizard with 12 int.

If you're both epic diviner and trnsmuter, you'll hardly fit another spell focus in. Which means you're awesome at seeing invisible people. And feeblemind, and burning hands. I don't see where the problem is, since you can just as well put that on gear, or just cast the first level spell twice as often. Like you said, you're not usually running out of first level spells.

I have a build for 3 epic spell focuses that runs around with 40 int, Greater ruin, hellball, Epic mage armor and an EDK. totally doable for a wizard.

In that case, I'd still argue putting those three into... like abjuration, illusion and evocation would likely make a stronger build than div/trans/something else.
Hell, that's the case, currently, with anythng that has transmutation in it. Kind of goes against the idea of the spell changes, IMO.

? I rejected some of the suggestions, like buffing amplify, but suggested a rather significant buff to blackstaff that would, along with the other stuff I thought was balanced enough, make epic evocation very worth it.

can we please have that blackstaff change please?

Unless I misunderstood your suggestion, yeah, it makes a transmutation spell stronger (though, 'only' a different damage type and combining multiple spells in one) what I personally would like to see is spell focus scaling. On something, anything transmutation related.

The change is nice, and sounds incredibly tasty, (though, personally liked every time a mage casts blackstaff on my characters) I'm not arguing against that. But it diesn't help the fact that ESF transmutation is a (almost) useless feat, unless you really like petrifying people.

Well my proposed blackstaff change would probably need some tweaking, especially to make epic transmutation more appealing. It was just a rough suggestion of what I would like to see blackstaff be when on an epic transmutation character.

A more realistic change would be to cap the damage of it at 1d6 without transmutation focus, then up the cap by 1 step per focus, ending at the 1d12 at epic transmutation & 25 CL.

That said, I'd be open to other spells being changed as well to help buff transmutation a bit.

Slow
----
ESF: Changes this to ignore permanent freedom, but on a failed will save as per standard.

Greater Sanctuary
-----------------
ESF: Also gives the caster +5/30 DR & CL/Spellresistance for it's duration.

Tenser's Transformation
----------------------
Each spellfocus adds 3d6 temp HP, capping at 9d6 (+CLd6 from the spell)
ESF adds exotic weapon proficiency

Stone to Flesh
--------------
Spellfocus transmutation adds 1 round per 2 CL immunity to flesh to stone
Greater spellfocus increases this to 1 round per CL
Epic spellfocus increases it to 1 turn per CL

Polymorph Self
--------------
Epic focus transmutation makes this spell permanent until dispelled, similar to ioun stones. (Maybe some buffs to the forms as well?)

I think if Tensers, Polymorph and Shapechange could use any buff from spell focus it would be extra attacks per round. Kinda like the default Divine Power spell. They're still pretty useless if you're swinging with only 2 attacks per round.

Extra attacks would be to strong, since shapechange scrolls have a high enough caster level that anyone can use them to get them as well and any fighter/wm who uses scimitars would suddenly be able to toss that on and get the attacks.

You misunderstand, I'm talking about the max APR of 4 you get with a high base attack bonus class. So they wouldn't benefit and I meant if you invested into the spell focus feats.

Gravemaskin wrote:

Good stuff

I like all of these, though the Gsanc one might be a bit strong since you can exit gsanc and possibly keep the DR.

Especially SLOW becuase Slow is one of the best AoE debuffs in nwn and I so wish it were good usable here.

I dislike anything that bypass immunities. As someone who rolled way too many 1s I guarantee you it's gamebreaking (aka. a character with fort save 57 crit. failing roll against banshee dc 15 TWICE in a row). If you want stuff that bypass immunities, disable critical fails. Quid pro quo.

Not to mention you're setting up a nice precedent for other schools. Enchanters complaining about mind blanks comes to mind. I'm not saying no to transmutation spells buff, but with boundaries.

In the case of enchanters, mindblank is not something that is permanently available on gear. Permafreedom makes one of the only very good spells in the entire school useless for anything but trying to remove haste spells.

I had a thought.

What about granting haste effects to Expeditious Retreat with ESF Transmutation? That alone would be worth taking the feat.

ESF trans could also extend the duration of mass haste, maybe make it 1.5 rounds/level. I'm cautious about buffing it too much since it's already a very powerful spell.

For offensive usage, slow could stand to add something with ESF to make it viable on targets with freedom, something like a scripted movement speed decrease.
Bestow Curse could have a small AoE on ESF transmutation, if you want to go that route.

There aren't /that/ many arcane transmutation options for sorcs/wizards, though. Especially since we're missing out on spells like disintegrate.

I'd also be a touch cautious of adding foci bonuses to tensers, since it's so integral on spellsword builds, we wouldn't want to pidgeonhole them into a single focus.

Mass Haste however is Enchantment

I'm pretty sure it's a mistype on Bioware's part, since Mass Haste doesn't fit the enchantment paradigm at all.

There is also a thought that ESF transmutation could enhance the polymorph self/shapechange forms, and give them useful abilities.

I had these written up a while back. I don't want to dogpile onto the "wouldn't it be neat to add X" thing, but here's what would be helpful according to my train of thought.

What most transmutation spells do: Straight stat-buffs that work 100% the same when cast by an Epic Transmuter or a potion/scroll. Their availability limits what can be done with them. Most of the server is already balanced on what they are now being the maximum. So, no, we cannot give Haste more AC or GMW a higher Enchantment bonus even for ESF: Transmutation without revisiting a lot of things. You're not just giving the Epic Transmuter a +6 weapon, you're giving a party full of min-maxed Barbarians and Weapon Masters +6 weapons. On the other hand, ability buffs mainly affect casters and increasing their maximum output translates to giving them additional slots on their equipment. It's probably okay to give things you could be getting from other sources, though.

What most Transmuters want to do... I think: Buff their allies, debuff enemies, control the battlefield, and occasionally walk around in something else's skin if they're feeling confident. It's a school of utility with some crowd control thrown in for good measure.

The tightrope: We can buff Transmutation feats, as long as we buff the spells in ways that they aren't already strong. Giving Transmuters flexibility and range doesn't have to translate to buffing pocket mages. We can also give them a bit more chances to flex their DC's by adding effects to some of their spells.

Expeditious Retreat: Affects one additional nearby ally per spell focus. With ESF, the spell also grants the Spring Attack feat for the duration, negating Attacks of Opportunity when fleeing. Meep meep.

Animal Buffs: Give additional Skill Bonuses per Focus. These are halved when using the BoT option.

Bull: +4/6/8 Discipline
Cat: +2/4/6 Hide and Move Silent
Bear: +4/6/8 Concentration
Fox: +2/4/6 Appraise and Lore
Owl: +2/4/6 Spot and Listen
Eagle: +2/4/6 Taunt and Intimidate

Greater Magic Weapon: at ESF, weapon gains No Damage property(negates base damage) and gains magical damage equal to Base damage of the weapon. E.G. A longsword gains 1d8 Magical damage. I forget if our bosses still have 5/- Magical resistance after we removed it from items. If so, ignore this. It's mainly to bypass a portion or late-game resistances; no additional damage, but more consistent damage is the goal.

Keen: Weapon gains 1d4/1d8/1d10 Massive Critical property with Focus feats.

Haste/Slow: at ESF, gain a free casting of the other when the spell is cast. E.G. Epic Transmuter casting Haste on himself also Slows surrounding enemies. Transmuter casting Slow on enemies also Hastes himself.

Flesh to Stone: Additionally casts a Slow AoE on enemies surrounding the initial target. DC is increased by feats as normal as a level 6 spell. At ESF, Petrify also becomes AoE.

Stone to Flesh: When cast on a non-petrified enemy this works as Disintegrate(we already have a nice VFX for this). DC is increased by feats as normal. Special: Petrified targets do not get a save, but are un-petrified after a casting of the spell.

Tenser's Transformation: Honestly, a bit too generous as it is in terms of being gish-in-a-can. It is however the only truly viable way to play one, unfortunately. If I had my rathers, I'd take away the weapon proficiency and give them back with feats: Simple/Martial/Exotic. Yes, your 29wiz/1monk Evoker only gets to hulk out with a club or a dagger. Invest feats in Transmutation, proficiency, or at least a melee class if you want something better for a single spell slot. If it hasn't been done already, we should also make sure its using the CL of the scroll user, rather than the scroll CL. Otherwise, we're just handing out free AB. Eh, take what I say with a grain of salt, I have admittedly heavy bias here.

Greater Sanctuary, Timestop, and Polymorph spells are so tied up in other things that it's kinda pointless to discuss changing them without also changing those other factors. And those deserve their own threads. Giving Mass Haste back to Transmutation also would require its own discussion of re-appropriating spells to schools. Bioware divvied multiple spells up to new schools just to fill out the lists. Or we could even allow for spells to respect the feats of multiple schools, which I would support for things like Healing in Conjuration and Necromancy. #2EWasRight

Transmutation suggestions

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