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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 18:36 PM 

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Don't know how much work or how bad it would be balanced wise, but i think every God should support Travel or Time Domain. Most folks only create Chars that support one or the other in order to get Haste. That leaves out a Lot of the Clerical Clergy RP for followers of certain Gods and I don't think there represented as well as they should be by PC accounts.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 19:03 PM 



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I honestly don't get why people do that. Travel domain, while more powerful than some others (the alignments, for example), isn't all that great. Haste is easy enough to get, on items (have umd? Buy 15 (or more) instruments from Triumvir) and there's far stronger spells on domains, compared to what you'e got.
Also, Zayn has one domain he actually uses the benefit of, and all that gets him is extending a few spells that already are turn/level. And I'd say he's powerful enough. Clerics hardly need a buff. I'd like it if domains weren't as random, power-wise.

If anything, I'd vote for removing haste from all domains, because it would support people playing clerics of other deities. Then again, that's not really feasible. Probably would just move the people who go certain deities for power to different dieties...


 
      
lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 19:12 PM 



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I'd vote for removing the class/UMD restriction from the major wands, such as Haste and Imp Invis. Would prevent a large amount of builds (not just Clerics) from gimping themselves power wise due to the sheer power and utility these wands bring. I mean really.. how hard is it for someone selling you a Magic wand to quickly teach you how to use it?


 
      
bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 19:39 PM 

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Travel is kind of trash. Just get haste potions from a brewer. They're caster level 10 and absolutely worth the money spent. The other domains have so much to offer. Magic is amazing because it lets you buff your summons. If you can get magic and portal somehow you can get an amazingly strong gate summon that last an incredibly long time and actually warrants using buffs on.

There are other examples but you mostly need to get creative with your cleric domains.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 19:49 PM 



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Can't extend gate, as far as I'd heard. Otherwise, agreed fully. War domain has its uses, protection domain can be pretty awesome if you're willing to have a harder time gearing. Cavern is another set of EQs, Repose summon, and so on. Yeah, a Cleric (especially casters) would like haste, but haste is easy enough to get. Much the same goes for Trickery Domain and ImpInvis.

(admittedly, finding a brewer can be tough, because it's such a hassle, but still)


 
      
Tarnus
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 21:06 PM 

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The portal domain allows for gate to be cast as an 8th level spell, I believe extend should work on that. That being said, while we do make mechanical considerations in various instances, this is still an rp server and in this particular instance, RP far outweighs the mechanical benefits. (Personally I have played a lot of clerics without haste and never had an issue)

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 21:35 PM 



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I had heard it is due to every spell needing to be scripted to have an extended version. Like how you can only extend certain spells with a duration. Now, Gate, why would anyone at bioware bother to make an extended version when two classes can learn it, and both only have it as a level 9 spell? No class, in basic bioware scripting, nor any NPC or -any- instance CAN ever cast it extended.
Just like you can't cast fireball extended to extend the fire vulnerability.
That said, some form of testing would be cool, before someone invests hours to days into a broken concept.

About the RP, we could argue this point for days, but I don't see why certain deities should be intrinsically more powerful, simply by the domains they get. I know, that's kind of a D&D thing, but that fact, in itself, has little to do with RP.
If I were making a new game with zero baggage, domain spells would either be complete fluff, and/or restricted completely to PnP spell rulings. Since that's not the case, I don't see why Clerics should have a universal buff (if you really value Haste so much). They -really- don't need it.


 
      
Tarnus
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 22:09 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
I had heard it is due to every spell needing to be scripted to have an extended version. Like how you can only extend certain spells with a duration. Now, Gate, why would anyone at bioware bother to make an extended version when two classes can learn it, and both only have it as a level 9 spell? No class, in basic bioware scripting, nor any NPC or -any- instance CAN ever cast it extended.
Just like you can't cast fireball extended to extend the fire vulnerability.
That said, some form of testing would be cool, before someone invests hours to days into a broken concept.

About the RP, we could argue this point for days, but I don't see why certain deities should be intrinsically more powerful, simply by the domains they get. I know, that's kind of a D&D thing, but that fact, in itself, has little to do with RP.
If I were making a new game with zero baggage, domain spells would either be complete fluff, and/or restricted completely to PnP spell rulings. Since that's not the case, I don't see why Clerics should have a universal buff (if you really value Haste so much). They -really- don't need it.


I'd need to look at our present version, which I can't find at the moment, that being said, vanilla gate can be extended, because the bioware designers, for reasons that might simply be down to copy and and pasting the code, did indeed make it extendable.

That being said, Gate in particular amongst other spells has been modified on Amia, so taking whatever Bioware may have done as the default is something I do not recommend.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 22:33 PM 



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Ok, lol. Guess I was wrong. :D

I swear I'd read that on here...


 
      
lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 19 2018, 22:41 PM 



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Can confirm vanilla Gate supports Extend both 2DA and Script wise. Blame Tarnus if it doesn't work for changing the script server side. :evil:


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:48 AM 

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Amia is set to be a Roleplay server. As such, every domain is properly set per deity on a Roleplay basis. Roleplay will -always- be considered before mechanical applications.


As such I'd strongly disagree with editing domains to make travel and time a universal application. As to take those domains means to take them with Roleplay as the consideration before mechanical application.

If you are taking travel/time domains simply for mechanical benefit? That's limiting yourself as a player based on mechanical appeal before considering the broad spectrum of Roleplay presented to you.

As well as bob and lil have suggested. There is items in triumvir for haste, there is potions of haste, and there is the ability to have wands of haste made to circumvent this.

So there is viable alternatives that do not suggest you cannot use haste if you do not take those domains.

Not to mention, the worst you accomplish by not having haste on your cleric build is missing 4 AC, an extra attack per round, and having to sit for a few extra moments to buff. None of which are in anyway mechanically crippling. not to mention you do not need UMD or any domains to use Potions of Speed which 100% circumvent the casting time issue.

As far as the UMD restriction on major wands. My personal disposition on the matter is as such: I personally feel if someone centers there build gimping themselves with the lack of UMD? They make up for it by replacing it with other benefits from classes that -don't- use UMD. So the lack of UMD in a cleric build is a 100% conscious building choice. And I like to think that if people are making that choice consciously, it's for a logical reason.

As such I feel removing the limitation universally and a minimal 15 skillpoint investment at that would would not only effect these builds but vast amount of other builds that don't use UMD and you'd have to consider balancing for every single one of them, not just this example.

Thus, I would be inclined to disagree on the notion of removing UMD requirements from wands.

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 20 2018, 17:24 PM 

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Angelis96 wrote:
If you are taking travel/time domains simply for mechanical benefit? That's limiting yourself as a player based on mechanical appeal before considering the broad spectrum of Roleplay presented to you.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 20 2018, 20:52 PM 

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AutoQuicken 3.

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The Doctor
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 20 2018, 21:22 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
AutoQuicken 3.



He lives!

Also a VERY good feat to have.

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 20 2018, 22:47 PM 

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What does Auto Quicken do exactly?

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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 20 2018, 23:05 PM 



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Cast as if hasted.


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 23 2018, 16:11 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
AutoQuicken 3.



Auto quicken 3 is another excellent way around this problem that does not require the domains or any potions or items. Thank you for that additive Tormak. I just frankly forget about it because with a feat starved build in epics, like clerics are, it is extremely feat intensive. 3 / (maybe) 5 feats in epic with bonuses. and as a melee cleric you really want EWF (maybe EWS) as well as save bonuses and armor skin.

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 03 2018, 2:50 AM 

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I just wanted to add that I find every alignment based domain to be pretty underwhelming, at least with their praying bonus in mind. + some damage against a situational alignment.. I don't know if they offer extra spells, the forum offers very little information in that regard.

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Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 03 2018, 2:53 AM 

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Shadowfiend wrote:
I just wanted to add that I find every alignment based domain to be pretty underwhelming, at least with their praying bonus in mind. + some damage against a situational alignment.. I don't know if they offer extra spells, the forum offers very little information in that regard.


Some do. For example: Selena my Tiamat priestess with the dragon domain gets shapechange as a 9th circle spell.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 03 2018, 9:59 AM 



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Well, the alignment based domains, evil, good, chaos,and law are actually really underwhelming. I personally never take them. There's a decent spell or two in there, but for the most part, I've always figured it's just smarter to take just about anything else.


 
      
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