AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Epic weapons in epic shops. Real loot as drops.

It's time. Make the warforged weapons be sold by the ghost and make epic boss drops be the other stuff.

Tandannon wrote:

It's time. Make the warforged weapons be sold by the ghost and make epic boss drops be the other stuff.

No.

i support this initiative, but as has been shown in the past the community's desires are not necessarily reflected in administrative direction.

OpenTheRift wrote:

i support this initiative, but as has been shown in the past the community's desires are not necessarily reflected in administrative direction.

I guess I'm not part of your community, as I support the DM Team on this one.

No, epic weapons do not need to be sold. A different system than what there currently is, perhaps, but not sold.

Kudark wrote:

OpenTheRift wrote:

i support this initiative, but as has been shown in the past the community's desires are not necessarily reflected in administrative direction.

I guess I'm not part of your community, as I support the DM Team on this one.

Same here, apparently.

Naivatkal wrote:

No, epic weapons do not need to be sold. A different system than what there currently is, perhaps, but not sold.

This

aren´t epic weapons worse than what you can craft by yourself? if that the case they aren´t that EPIC.

Epic weapons get some extra damage that can't be mythaled on. That's about it.

Kudark wrote:

I guess I'm not part of your community, as I support the DM Team on this one.

viewtopic.php?p=1371735#p1371735

Naivatkal wrote:

No, epic weapons do not need to be sold. A different system than what there currently is, perhaps, but not sold.

viewtopic.php?p=1318825#p1318825

That Guy wrote:

Kudark wrote:

I guess I'm not part of your community, as I support the DM Team on this one.

Same here, apparently.

viewtopic.php?p=1323506#p1323506

Darkblade wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

No, epic weapons do not need to be sold. A different system than what there currently is, perhaps, but not sold.

This

viewtopic.php?p=1232715#p1232715

Each of you has bartered over an epic weapon. "But it's the player economy!" Yes, and that's what OtR was referring to; there are already entire discussions about the price of epic items in general, and weapons specifically, how they are 'priced' by the community's economy (whether unspoken or in some cases meticulously detailed in public and private catalogs). The community desires for public trading of weapons for gold (and often a set amount of gold), and they do so. So do all of the people I referred to above.

I mean, I get it - you want epic weapons to be extra valuable and for them not to be ubiquitous. The system as it stands just encourages grinding out gold or boss runs (both of which are as low RP as it gets), and it still results in a system where certain epic weapons are less expensive than their +4 bonus counterparts (which are available from a store that's so deep in the abyss and so light on justification for visiting that it should automatically fall paladins if that's their only reason for going).

I think if you're looking for ways to make sure your equipment is both not for sale and as special as your characters, you can have them specially crafted through DCs.

As much as I can see your point, I don't think it should be so easy to walk into a store and simply purchase an epic weapon anytime you like. The current, player driven model requires someone to get one of these weapons, which is in itself a task, and not something many people will bother doing. Then, it requires interaction with another character, and perhaps bidding, rather than showing up to another OOC store as you say and simply buying it. That said, if they are to be sold in stores, the prices should be astronomical, to offset the time and difficulty in acquiring one in the wild.

My point is, the randomness of the boss hunt system keeps them relatively rare. Putting them on a store that you can buy from anytime you like would ruin the rarity.

I don't quite see the point of making epic loot free to buy in shops. I mean I'm someone who have traditionally not been going hunting a lot with my chars, and only have a few that can actually solo anything above fire giants, but I've never really had a problem with it even then. You can get your hands on them trough RP most of the time, and when you can't.. you can have weapons specially made to suit your character by finding people that can do it Icly and writing up a request for it.

Sure I can see the merits of it, because it'd be a huge time saver and make things a bit more reliable when hunting, by guaranteeing you can get something worthwhile out of the gold you're gathering.. but given the relatively minor gains of going from mythalled weapon -> epic drop weapon, I don't really see the point for doing this when there's other things that's requiring dev attention atm.

This being said, I wouldn't mind having them added to certain DM events like the genie trader because it'd be limited availability, not constant and always.

CoA, you basically just made no sense, to be honest. Buying items from players does not equate to buying items from shops. Putting them in shops means they are readily available (even if it's one per reset that's 3 per day you can buy, not including crashes) versus people having to randomly find them and sell them. That's incredibly different than what is proposed here.

Like I said, a different system would be far preferable to just putting them in shops (which will never happen).

@ CouncilofAutumn: Yeah, I bartered for an epic item in an auction, it wasn't purchased in a shop that anyone can just walk into and buy.

Ninja Nav ninja'd me! And, what That Guy said, +1

I still support us replacing the Warforged and Trueforged weapons with a Wonderforged/Trueforged "Ore" item that can be crafted into whatever weapon you want. Cuts down on the admittedly dinky weapons getting dropped and bloating the lootbin, but also allows players to make whatever they need as they need it. No more holding onto epic maces and clubs on the offchance someone wants to be a WM in them. No more of certain weapons being unduly hard to find, because they're super popular mechanically. Everyone wins.

That's an excellent idea.

I rather like that idea as well.

Wonderful idea !!!

I would be in for that if there is a fairly easy way to implent it. I'd like to update the epic bin in general anyways.

If it could be done easily, I think it would be great to do, yeah.

How about this:
Conversation with special forge/blacksmith where you would pick type of shards/ore you are making (true-/war-/sure-) and what weapon (which might cost differently depending on size of weapon...or other factor... or just all the same, not really my decision).
Basically same way you trade items in basic NWN campaign, where in Neverwinter's Docks you can trade in that pirate Inn for pirate coins.

Blacksmith/forge could be either in public places (like mythal forges), or it could be somewhere less accesible (specific dungeon or two) to add another layer of difficulty, since it might be easier to get these weapons this way.

I don't think that'd be too hard to implement, just time consuming given it'd require a proper look trough the lootbin + quite a few conversation lines. (1 for each weapon type of each category)

- Remove all the sure/true/war forged weapons from the epic lootbin
- Add in ore or item or whatever so it has an appropriate droprate at the lootbin
- Make a merchant similar to Belorfin where instead of enchanting an item you're wearing, you get to pick which item you want crafted and place it somewhere 'everyone' can go without being restricted by IC guards.

Gravemaskin wrote:

I don't think that'd be too hard to implement, just time consuming given it'd require a proper look trough the lootbin + quite a few conversation lines. (1 for each weapon type of each category)

- Remove all the sure/true/war forged weapons from the epic lootbin
- Add in ore or item or whatever so it has an appropriate droprate at the lootbin
- Make a merchant similar to Belorfin where instead of enchanting an item you're wearing, you get to pick which item you want crafted and place it somewhere 'everyone' can go without being restricted by IC guards.

Love this idea, you could place him in Kampo's,

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

I would be in for that if there is a fairly easy way to implent it. I'd like to update the epic bin in general anyways.

When the Lootbin gets updated can we shoot our own ideas on what to add ?

You can always make suggestions, sure.

You probably want a look at the what goes and what not for dc requests because the things that we don't allow there wouldn't be allowed in epic bin either of course.

Generally we try to be sparse with full out immunities and feats.

I personally would like to see some new helmets.

Yup helmets and shields , And however unlikely 10/ bludgeon , slashing, piercing resist items
If you make a new Tread i'd be happy to create some things in the toolset and post them , or i can send you a PM

I'd suggest including a material for Seeking ranged weapons as well.

maglorine wrote:

I'd suggest including a material for Seeking ranged weapons as well.

*hugs Mags for that idea*

Just FYI nothing over 5/- for physical damage is going to be added again.

Only cause you don't want Ruggles to be all god mode. Shame, Naiv. Shame.

I support the ore idea, but definitely not the shop idea. If epic weapons were easy to get, they'd quickly lose their allure. But it's definitely frustrating to try for hours to get something useful only to finally find a completely useless weapon.

I think helmets and shields being updated is a great idea. I'd also love some more epic skill items. Or maybe even the possibility of adding new Ioun stones with skill bonuses. That'd be pretty sweet.

Iouns with skills were a mistake and shouldn't have been added. Especially the ones that were chosen.

Wider range of epic shields and epic helmets would be nice to have. Maybe some epic boots for wisdom. Dropable weapon schematics or an item similar to the EMD Scroll that lets you chose an epic weapon from a list would be handy.

Epic dex and wis items that monks can actually use would be splendid.

If an item is epic simply because it has has higher numbers compared to its non epic counterpart then it should be easily accessible. Epic bin should be items that are actually "epic" like ioun stones, tomes of mystra, and the like.

Additionally "dead drops" are ridiculously deflating to get and should just get stuck in the plus four bin, such as every epic buckler and crossbow and shit nobody ever uses cause it blows mechanically and has no way to rp it and not suck.

That's just me though. I think items like the "gloves of epic disc" are a perfect example of a horrid piece of epic loot. It's essentially required to pvp, when they get sold its for an absurd amount, and if you want one yourself you grind bosses for a five percent chance of a one in one hundred (or more) drop.

Just me though.

Akhlys wrote:

Epic dex and wis items that monks can actually use would be splendid.

Some more kamas in general would be nice as well.

Kamas are wonderfully itemized, as are quarterstaves. Fist monks need the help.

Wonderforged weapons are over-rated anyway. Second only to Ioun Stones.

Galenson wrote:

Wonderforged weapons are over-rated anyway. Second only to Ioun Stones.

Its literally more damage. It adds up really fast when you crit for three or four or even five times the amount. When you are good enough at the game you can look at someone and know what their classes are based on their HP alone, you realize thst three or four base damage means you kill them in one less attack.

So yeah, they are vitally important to anyone who swings a weapon.

TormakSaber wrote:

Kamas are wonderfully itemized, as are quarterstaves. Fist monks need the help.

add +30 discipline to the +6 gloves. done and done.

Dark Immolation wrote:

I still support us replacing the Warforged and Trueforged weapons with a Wonderforged/Trueforged "Ore" item that can be crafted into whatever weapon you want. Cuts down on the admittedly dinky weapons getting dropped and bloating the lootbin, but also allows players to make whatever they need as they need it. No more holding onto epic maces and clubs on the offchance someone wants to be a WM in them. No more of certain weapons being unduly hard to find, because they're super popular mechanically. Everyone wins.

So does this idea still have the support of the team? It would solve the problem in the OP.

I'll be really frank: We don't have anyone to code it into the module right now. The people we do have are on break, not around, or extremely busy with barely enough free time to do the bare necessities.

This is the reality of most any situation that needs scripting or requires scripting to fix.

Sure, that can't be avoided. I just wanted to check if this is the way we'll go if we ever are able.

Honestly epic weapons aren't really necessary to play. They're useful, but the only thing you need to overcome dr is the flawless from the phane, two greaters, and one intermediate. That extra couple points of damage hasn't hugely relevant. It's unnecessary icing and I don't even take warforgedn/sureforged/etc into my gear plans. I have ideas but I cba to farm epics so I plan my gear around greater shards and the couple of +5 items amia hasn't removed from shops already. Then all you need is a buddy with high will who'll help you kill the phane and you're set.

Epic weapons in epic shops. Real loot as drops.

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