View unanswered posts | View active topics * FAQ    * Search
* Login   * Register




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 1:55 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

Note this is all opinion, mostly.

An new addition to the epic loot bin I've had twice in a row now.

Whilst it is an interesting and cool item, I would not throw it in with boss loot.

When you roll for epic loot you hope for something worth more than the gold caps of Amia. This item rolls in at a measly 8.7k. With 1 Use/Day Camouflage (5) and Negative Energy Protection (15) 1 Use/Day, this comes in lacking against such items as the Tome of Mystra, or a Dragon Plate, or most weapons and boots or belts or anything in that loot bin.

Comparison, item dropped from quest in the abyss, Lucky Charm, Death Ward (7) 1 Use/Day, Prot from Alignment 1 Use/Day. This is massively better and available at a 100% chance once per character, which negates an epic bosses ability, more than one epic boss, mind.

Long story short, guys, I think I found a new item to replace the sickle in most useless epic loot! (For me.)

Anyone else find this item lackluster or is it just me?

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:08 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

Well...

for one the sell value means nothing at all. A duty rose ioun has a sell value of around 8.000 gold. Unless you consider that "not epic enough" either. Daily uses do not have a high gold value count at vendors, that doesn't really make them useless imho.

The item is not on par with the tome of mystra no, tbh the tome of mystra should never have been there, but after so long it was pointless to remove it.

It is more comparable to the orb of unlocked secrets, which also likely does not meet your cap but that does not mean it is useless.

The eye has two uses, one is very great for stealth characters because it gives you a real nice MS/hide boost without needing to "waste" slot space on gear which also stacks with other buffs and spells.

The other is neg energy protection, which is one of the most useful protections we have on Amia. It is caster level 15 which means it will last you a full resting period, for free, protecting you against any and all negative effects and giving you a hefty resistance against negative energy.

There are many hunting areas on Amia (not to mention PVP) where neg energy prot. is crucial. You can get it in game, yes, but over the course of time, getting it for free is saving youa ton of money.

Additionally, it is an inventory item, so you get all that for "free" without needing to equip anything or having to waste an equipment slot.

As with any item, there are of course classes where it is less useful for, as for example a cleric (unless they happen to be a stealth cleric).

My two cents.

_________________
Image
Image


 
      
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:21 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

A single cast of negative energy protection that means you still have to buy a bunch of potions either way.

The orb casts True Seeing, a spell that is required in order to counter one of the most used spells in the game. Whilst its use is heavily mitigated by faded orbs, you can still find use in its duration of the cast. Yes, it's more viable and useful than the Yowlers Eye.

So your argument is that the other items are just too strong? I don't mean to be rude Amarice, but I don't buy that because if that's the case why aren't we balancing new items to come into par with what we consider epic?

I would appreciate it if you didn't assume what items do and don't satisfy me, I mentioned the gold sell price because it's the only thing I found a use for the eye with.

I understand that I could be coming over as a douche just knocking your input, but I'm really not aiming for that.

As for the gold saving, it doesn't really apply, again. Amia is the kind of server in which you can spend a few hours hunting something when you're max level and have half a mil +, profit and that's covering potion and bandage expenditures, for a weapon master. So that's no buffs you haven't paid for.

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:23 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

The orb does not cast true seeing. It casts improved invisibility once a day that lasts not even half as long as the negative energy protection.

_________________
Image
Image


 
      
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:32 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

I'll shut up right now if anyone here would take either neg prot or camo over imp invis.

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:36 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

The point is it is very similar.

Neg energy is cruical in many places. So is imp invis.

Both you can buy elsewhere too.

So in essence all the item does is make you not depend on having to go out and buy them.

And camoflage is a really really great thing to have for a stealth chara that is not a ranger. The original eyes (without neg energy) sold for millions after the creatures who dropped them were taken out of the module btw. And I beefed them still before dropping it in the epic bin.

I would not take one over the other, no. I would take both. AndI gladly trade of buy that item off of you XD

_________________
Image
Image


 
      
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:39 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

My Distaste mostly comes from getting it 2x in a row on a wizard, honestly. Seeing it pop up and getting a hide boost on a non-sneak and a spell I can cast hurts. xD However, you've got me convinced atleast on the neg-protection.

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:42 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

well I am afraid you will be just as unhappy about a imp invis orb or a flame weapon item on a wizard.

Alas, it should be a good trade item still.

Getting the same item twice in a row is extremely rare as it is a random pick out of a bin that holds 100 items. So that happens like... almost never. I guess non of us would turn down 2 fort +5 cloaks in a row tough, eh? XD

_________________
Image
Image


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 9:46 AM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Somewhere in Novlr

I have three characters who would like a Yowler's Eye! ;D

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - First Knight of Kohlingen
-------------------


 
      
SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 10:10 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 31 Mar 2014

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Getting the same item twice in a row is extremely rare as it is a random pick out of a bin that holds 100 items. So that happens like... almost never. I guess non of us would turn down 2 fort +5 cloaks in a row tough, eh? XD


Yeah, we got it as a drop off of both Windy and the Illithid boss in the Duregar. One day after the other :D

Back to another point in this thread; The big thing that surprised me is that after getting the Yowler's Eye, I noticed the token I gave in for the Abyss quest turned into a similar item with two spells at a 1 Use/Day charge. Death Ward and Protection From Evil. I'm going to agree that Negative Energy Protection is useful, but honestly comparing the two items, I wondered why this is a quest reward and not in the loot bin as well. They're at a relatively equal level of usefulness, though honestly I found the Lucky Charm to be a better find all together. Especially since my character is not a sneak, though an item that could find use with a broader audience (like the White Ioun Stone that bumps all saves up by 1, etc) will always seem like the more valuable ones.

Not that I'm complaining that I didn't have to boss hunt for it, mind you. It's an amazing reward for a quest, and a nice little treat from the grind. I applaud Dicey for his creativity on that one, as well. But for the sake of discussion on the solidarity of these items of power or where to draw the line between boss loot and just high tier loot, it seems strange to me.

_________________
Image

Thats the way it crumbles ... cookie-wise!


 
      
vhunelar
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 17:26 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 16 Nov 2017

I'm going to risk being more hated by certain players and speak my mind.

There is more than enough super powered epic level loot on this server as it is. This is a low difficulty nwn server with endless options for role play.

You lose almost no xp when you die pvm. You lose nothing in pvp. Your gear is NEVER lost.

So items are not needed to keep your character from major level or gear losses - that is what powerful items are mostly for. To keep your character alive under very difficult conditions. Amia's balance already leans towards the player in pvm and for pvp there's plenty of options now.

For example, amia has almost no creatures that see invisibility. Almost none. That's really, really nice of staff. There's no reason some of the enemies from 15th level over wouldn't have it all the time as a spell. So it was a choice to be nice and make sure monsters aren't too impossible to beat. Another way of saying this is - items are already very powerful because the enemies are NOT. Any two 30th levels can beat any monster in the game without any epic gear at all.

So what I am saying if I'm not clear is I'm just not in favour of any complaint to the effect of needing more powerful items or characters. This is not a request for tougher foes - I think the builders made a great balance. That's what I'm saying - the balance is excellent for rp now - no more tricked out items please.

More rp flavorful items yes. More power? No thank you.

That's all. Thanks for reading.

_________________
Plays:
Tamarra (Tam on Discord)


 
      
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 18:45 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

vhunelar, I have a quick statement to make. I too am known on Amia for being quite out spoken in my own right. The way I do so though is this, I have to ask you, right now, why are you going to every thread on the forum and immediately making it about you with the sentences akin to "I'm going to risk being more hated".
Understand we've had all sorts of players here. Take it from me when I say no one honestly cares. From 10 year old whining kids that don't get what they want, to stubborn old farts like our beloved Budly. Dude, my point is, you do make some good points, but stop with the whole victim game please.

As for your argument, I don't disagree. I don't argue with items being lesser powerful and RP tasty, no where have I said that. In fact I even pointed out that I enjoy the nice touch made with the Yowlers eye being interesting. The description is cooler still, my argument, if you would pay attention was the placement of it in the loot bins. I personally do not consider this an epic item because it does not fall into my line of value. Now to clarify, I've been playing a wizard. I don't need anything from that item. Thus its value is that of trade/sale value.

The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking either my point wasn't clearly put across, or that you picked it up wrong. I think the Yowlers eye is a cool item from an RP stand point. Initially my post indicated my lack of appreciation toward the item, which was swiftly changed via Amarice' well written arguments. Comparing it to the Lucky Charm, both items find no use when given to a Cleric.

-- Having been hunting today I broke my Yowler Eye streak, getting a new helmet and I must say that I'm much more satisfied with helmets being an addition to epic loot.

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 20:54 PM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
Not that I'm complaining that I didn't have to boss hunt for it, mind you. It's an amazing reward for a quest, and a nice little treat from the grind. I applaud Dicey for his creativity on that one, as well. But for the sake of discussion on the solidarity of these items of power or where to draw the line between boss loot and just high tier loot, it seems strange to me.


Actually, I was the one who "made" (as in stat wise) that item aswell XD tbf most (aside of some DM plot items) these days usually are statted by me. It is an xtremely good item, yup. But it also is our highest epic quest, and it requires you to travel through the entire abyss, aswell as past all the traps, which usually also requires you to find a group (very very few charas can solo the full abyss, and these usually blow a quite impressive amount of heal potions while doing so).

Alas, the stats mostly there are also a bit of sarcasm/a pun. Seeing... well death ward... and the guy who had it was dead ;) I also did pick it and did not consider it "epic" as it is already in the normal loot bin, actually. Just here it requires no UMD, and no item swap (as the one in the regular loot bin is a ring, namely a deity ring.) while there is. Else you are right, I would have made it an epic drop. Albeit, someone had already put it in the non epic bin, so suddenly make it an epic item additionally to it already having been in the normal loot bin for years, would have been moot. (imho)

That just as an explanation for my reasoning behind these two items and why one is an epic quest reward, and the other an epic boss drop.

_________________
Image
Image


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 21:05 PM 



Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Well, I feel like two potions on a daily use aren't really an epic item, IMO. Death Ward or ImpInvis at least have the benefit of them mostly being distributed by players, and those potions not being sold. (afaik, at least) Which makes two potions you can buy seem pretty... underwhelming, in my book. Which seems the same as the Flame Weapon thing, unless that one actually works with a BoT, in which case it also does stuff beyond what a normal shop item can do...

That aside, though: Would you ever consider just adding a flat +gold value to some of the epic items, so they sell for a bit more than 8k? I mean, it would seem like merchants would know they're pretty rare. (at least in our setting) I mean, either Hil'rash straight up shouldn't buy them, because he's unsure if he can sell it again, or he should pay quite a bit for it. Like 25k.
Or is there some reason why the +gold value property isn't on items, apparently?


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 21:12 PM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

robbi320 wrote:
Well, I feel like two potions on a daily use aren't really an epic item, IMO. Death Ward or ImpInvis at least have the benefit of them mostly being distributed by players, and those potions not being sold. (afaik, at least) Which makes two potions you can buy seem pretty... underwhelming, in my book. Which seems the same as the Flame Weapon thing, unless that one actually works with a BoT, in which case it also does stuff beyond what a normal shop item can do...


Item use actually works with BoT yes.

Imp Invis can be bought in stores. You need no other player for that. Not in form of potions, but in form of scrolls and dust of disappearance.

All in all, as most things, it is a matter of preference.

For some people it feels underwhealming. For some, they love it to not have to think of buying scrolls/potions all the time and safe the daily gold for that and on top never "run out" if you forget to restock. A lot of people love these items and in the past, paid DC for getting them.

So as with all items really, if they are not your turf, just trade or sell them? there are plenty of people who would love to have one (and yes, of course also some who do not want them, as with any item) So get some player interaction going and trade it for something you like more ;)

_________________
Image
Image


 
      
SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 22:29 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 31 Mar 2014

Fair enough, Ama. Good enough explanation for me!

_________________
Image

Thats the way it crumbles ... cookie-wise!


 
      
vhunelar
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 13 2018, 0:25 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 16 Nov 2017

Broldi wrote:
vhunelar,....Take it from me when I say no one honestly cares.....


You made a post about how you needed x item you boss hunted for to be more powerful.
I posted that it might not be popular but I totally disagreed with this. And then gave reasons why.
Then you attacked me personally as a reply.

That is what happened.

(in the interests of relative peace won't be posting in this thread further - I DON'T want the admins to have worry if there's some drama they need to put out)



Just want to add re my 'delusions' certain people hate me

It must be a shared delusion because various players have contacted me privately to talk about it

I think one the most elegant comments was this one (I will not say who said it but they know who they are)

"look, you have my support and I think the server is better with you on it
I don't get the hostility, some people behave like you hurt their cat in real life or something
I haven't been on the server for long but before you got involved, everyday RP was pretty much people standing around in Bendir Dale socialising
i.e. boring
maybe people just hate IC conflict, I don't get it
maybe it's just people clinging to the status quo for dear life, funny how that seems to always happen"

_________________
Plays:
Tamarra (Tam on Discord)


 
      
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 13 2018, 0:31 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

I have not yet heard anything about any of your PCs yet in RP. Only have I seen conflict from you OOC, over the forum, editing and remaking posts when you have lost your cool repeatedly.

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 13 2018, 1:32 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 08 Oct 2012

Broldi wrote:
Anyone else find this item lackluster or is it just me?


I do as well. Yet I would find more use out of that item than I would out of the Hood of Archer I recently brought up in a different thread, or the gloves of lore / appraise that apparently everyone consider to be the greatest things ever (that's what I get from the comments...) I mean, I do use negative energy protection potions (but I don't need lore, don't need what little gold appraise would give me and I don't use a bow)

I am not saying these items should not be on the server, but I really think they should not be in the epic loot bin with the likes of forti cloak +5 (yes, I shamelessly used arguably the strongest epic item as a comparison! :P)


As for the argument that Death Ward is on a ring.. no deity ring or other item has negative energy protection? (genuine question here) I mean, I never had to look because potions are cheap and easy to get. Which in itself might actually indicate that this epic item is not that epic or useful to begin with, no?

_________________
Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526


 
      
Kiyona
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 14 2018, 19:32 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 03 Jan 2018

Broldi wrote:
I have not yet heard anything about any of your PCs yet in RP. Only have I seen conflict from you OOC, over the forum, editing and remaking posts when you have lost your cool repeatedly.


I mean... What a bunch of...? What do you call this?

Just lies piled on lies. Why does no one challenge this? I get to show up days later to see him spouting this junk uncontested.

_________________
Playing as:
Essedeavenix: Qu’el’faerz'un'arr of house Defadilae
Alva Schultheiss: Bloodthirsty devote of Targus


 
      
Richard_Edmund
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 14 2018, 20:01 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)

Keep the thread on topic, folks. :)

_________________
Warlord Elwyn Sabel | Necromaster Laura Jarshall


 
      
Broldi
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 14 2018, 23:16 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

Fact, I have not interacted with Vhunelar in game.
Fact, Vunelar has made posts whilst emotional and bitten at people or circumstance.
Fact, they have posted apologies over some of said outbursts to cover and make amends. (I fail to see the sincerity in repeated apologies.)

Sorry bro, but I won't be called a liar.

_________________
MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF


 
      
LeathanKayne
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 14 2018, 23:33 PM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada (EST, GMT -5)

Richard_Edmund wrote:
Keep the thread on topic, folks. :)

This. Enough's enough, people.

_________________
Lady Vera Talen - Former Ambassador, Knight Captain, and Chancellor of Kohlingen
Delen Tredinnick - Archdruid of the Earthmother
Fosco Oldfur - Father, cook, sneak

And the DM that brutally stabs you when you aren't looking :3


 
      
vhunelar
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 15 2018, 9:31 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 16 Nov 2017

Since k was speaking for me I'll apologise for her.

I don't want any further drama here. If anyone wants to defend me, don't. I just want peace.

that's all.

_________________
Plays:
Tamarra (Tam on Discord)


 
      
angst360
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 17 2018, 9:34 AM 



Player

Joined: 10 Jul 2014

The reward for completing the (currently broken) 'Shade Steel' quest, Shadow Dust, gives neg energy protection once per day as well.

I have also come across a Yowlers eye and was a bit underwhelmed. That kind of neg energy protection, imo, made a better quest reward than an epic loot drop. I would also hazard to say that while the new epic loot seems interesting, diluting the epic loot bin with items whose functions used to be acquirable through quest or are easily acquired by every class on the server through a potion seller is a bit lame. Yowlers eye is a nice item, but it aint' exactly epic.


 
      
chefwudan
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 05 2018, 18:14 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL

Somewhat related topic:

Item drops aside, I'd personally rather have the Yowlers back in the FoD. That place used to be much more brutal back then. And it really fit the name Forest of "Despair" much better. Now it's just the Forest of loot drops.


 
      
thunderbrush
 
PostPosted: Tue, May 15 2018, 15:41 PM 



Player

Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast

Meh. It's a handy item for many. The only thing you brought to light is that you CAN buy many potions handily that make complex problems mundane. I don't feel like the staff should be responsible for creating items that plug the holes in every build. It would be an exhaustive endeavor and effectively make each and every class boring, and some useless. Consider I have several characters that invested feats in wandcraft and potion brewing.

_________________
Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased


 
      
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group