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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 2:28 AM 

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Obviously, I can't see character sheets so it's only my best guess based on pure speculation. But it appears to me this server has become overrun with good type characters, be they metallic dragon disciples, paladins, Aasimar, or even the balance preserving druids. I know people will play what RP suits them and want to play where other players are active. But maybe evil RP suits you better than you think and you're simply looking at them wrong.

Being an evil character isn't about doing evil just for the sake of evil, its a character like any other only much more self-centered. Maybe they are also sadistic, malicious, vicious, or maybe they are none of those, maybe they are simply incredibly power-hungry and have little regard for life. You can try for the obvious evil character that is almost in your face with his evilness, or you can be subtle. Just like any character, less is more, and this is double for evil characters. You can do all the same things you do with good as you can with evil, hang out with all the same good characters you would otherwise. Participate in the same events and go to the same cities.

But unlike when your good, you can do all these same nice things but for entirely selfish reasons. You can talk to your buddies while secretly scheming, patiently waiting for the right moment, depending on your ambition. You can help someone not because its the right thing to do, but because you might be able to turn it to your advantage at a later date. All because your evil doesn't mean you have to be over-the-top evil, some of the best evil players I've seen you'd never guess they were evil, not until the damage was already done.

I'd wager we're all pretty good people in real life, so why would you want to continue to practice those morals in game? If you don't have an evil character, maybe consider some sort of low key evil you might enjoy RPing, let your inner demon out.
:twisted:

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MightNMagic
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 5:12 AM 

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It's just pragmatism.

Being purely self-centered is just neutrality. Taking that to the extreme of destructiveness is evil. That would honestly mean losing friendships. Evil people don't really have friends, they can't maintain that. At best they have associates who have similar goals who are convenient dupes.

Another reason is lack of permanence.

Kidnapping isn't really feasible (or fun for a person who is looking at long-term times of being unable to do anything), murder doesn't even exist and theft would require someone willing to go along with it. If I've learned anything, far too many people's egos will prevent them from being willing to accept losing even minor social interactions. Meaningful ones? Forget about it.

Being evil would only mean sitting around Tarkuul once you've been exiled, only being able to do anything with a sympathetic DM where the victims are throwaway NPCs.

It's just the typical downfall of the way servers are built. Most servers are geared to heroism. A D&D game geared towards evil works far better than any NWN server could because your tabletop DM builds the world to work with that, but ultimately even an evil campaign falls apart if the people playing evil understand the nature of evil.

I got bored of my assassin because there was nothing to do and sitting around watching people talk about candy and haircuts was unfitting.

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Zafriah
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 7:24 AM 

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There's plenty of evil characters about...just maybe not in Bendir Dale!! There are DMs happy to help out with evil plots, too ...

You can always poke folk on Discord if you're wandering around looking for someone...evil....

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Politically Correct
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 7:48 AM 

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As long as there are no consequences, there is no point in playing evil character. And there are no consequences, period.

Hence the superfast burnout of evil players. Check the history of the server if you don't think it's true.

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Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:24 AM 

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There's honestly more active Evil PCs than you may think! There's also a lot of questionable neutral folk too!

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 9:33 AM 



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Good isn't also "that" unified. There is lots of conflict between good chars, though its mostly non-violent. But they tend to agree together that evil people, evil neighbours or evil things are bad and will usually unite together to get rid of them.

They can also differ in methods and ways of combating the evil side.

They aren't a hivemind after all.

There are so many different gods in the FR that even if there is lots of overlap in one side of the alignment, every character can still have their own goals and morals which might conflict with other good people (unless they manage to argue their cases without needing to use force).

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Last edited by T0mc4t89 on Thu, Sep 06 2018, 12:30 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Politically Correct
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 11:03 AM 

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Kamina wrote:
There's honestly more active Evil PCs than you may think!


The same rhetoric we hear for years.

I've been on both sides. The scenario is always the same, apart from absolute exceptions (experienced one, maybe two such exception in last what, ten years?) - evil guys lurks about, plotting stuff that either never happens, or it happens but with zero impact on other players and almost always requires constant presence of a DM.

So after some time they burn out and either switch sides, concept, or just leave. Good guys are doing more or less the same, just on the opposite pole.

Nothing wrong with it, mind you. That's how things roll on Amia for some time now - you have to get used to it. "The age of Darthion" is gone and there is no will from vast majority to bring such setting back. IIRC, there were attempts to stir the pot between good / evil, but they quickly fell flat due to constant bickering and, pardon my french, bitching from players who got their egos bruised by PvP or the conflict of alignments in general. The attitude of staff, who tried to kiss every boo boo instead of telling people to deal with it IC did not help either.

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ZoltanTheRed
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 13:31 PM 

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My advice for anyone: play characters, not alignments.


 
      
Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 13:59 PM 

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MightNMagic wrote:
If I've learned anything, far too many people's egos will prevent them from being willing to accept losing even minor social interactions.


This is definitely a problem that I've seen time and time again, one I'm sorry to say I've done myself once or twice before I learned better. Everyone wants to be the winner and thinks far too highly of their character. Have you personally never failed once in life? Have you never done something that made you feel embarrassed or ashamed? That's just a part of life and people should learn to apply similar failures to their characters, where is the fun in winning every time?

MightNMagic wrote:
Being evil would only mean sitting around Tarkuul once you've been exiled, only being able to do anything with a sympathetic DM where the victims are throwaway NPCs.


Politically Correct wrote:
. . evil guys lurks about, plotting stuff that either never happens, or it happens but with zero impact on other players and almost always requires constant presence of a DM.


I think this is the main problem with evil players as much as it is a problem with good aligned players, it's always an over-the-top approach. Good going over-the-top just isn't as likely to gather some unified force to stop them. I didn't make this thread to be another "evil has it rough" discussion, but to talk about the other ways you can be evil. Its not that your RP doesn't matter when you do evil, it's that everybody's RP matters. If you try to burn down a forest, there are characters that are going to try to stop you and fix what you did.

You don't need to poison the water supply to be evil, you don't need to make some sort of lasting mark on the server to play evil. You just have to be evil, you can do all the same RP that good does, all you do is change your motivation for what you're doing. If you're a necromancer looking for fresh bodies, if you're a Banite trying to spread the influence of his church, then be smart about it. Because other characters will react as they're expected to, for good or for worse.

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freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 17:09 PM 

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I like playing Valora.

Sure she's evil. But she's pretty nice.

I like to see how confused people are that she in fact is rather enjoyable company if you give her a shot and can see past the creepy-ness.

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A Majestic Dwarf
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 17:24 PM 

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"Evil" is one of those terms which is actually quite difficult to nail down as it can be applied to so much. I think a lot of selfish characters are evil, as I think in D&D, pursuing your own goals at the expense of others could be classed as evil. After all, a neutral character probably wouldn't kill a man for something he wanted, or scheme to have the man's family destroyed in other ways. He may steal it, or con the man out of it if he was on the choatic end of the neutral spectrum, but his efforts to get that which he wants will be somewhat moderate when compared to the lengths that a selfish evil character is willing to go to.

But that is not the only way to play evil, there are loads. The few times I have played "Evil" they are usually either the "Ends Justify the means" or "The Road to hell is paved with good Intentions" characters. What I mean by this, is that their goals, are reasonable, perhaps noble, definitely human; It is just their methods which are not. After all, Summoning Demons to protect a village from another evil force? Evil itself? probably not. Misguided? Certainly. Corruptive? Hell yes. But the motivations initially are godo, methods lead him towards the path of darkness. Such an evil character would justify acts as murder, torture, theft, to acheive his noble goals. The fact that his actions corrupt himself and his goal is either unseen or justified. A good example of "Ends Justify the means" is the Operative in Serenity, highlighted by this conversation:

The Operative: I'm sorry. If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to. You should have taken my offer. Or did you think none of this was your fault?

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't murder children.

The Operative: I do. If I have to.

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?

The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?

The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.


I have also seen Evil characters work well within good/neutral settlements by working within the laws and traditions of the settlement. After all, all laws have loopholes, and those loopholes can be used. The good intentions of others can be manipulated and used to ones advantage. This isn't particularly feasible in Kohlingen due to the amount of Detect Evil that can be bandied around the place but don't let that stop you trying if that is what you really want to do. Especially if you have a word with the DM's about it first. These characters, may well end up supporting good causes, as after all... one good turn deserves another.

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Dunecat
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 06 2018, 18:27 PM 

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I agree with Might&Magic and, even more so, with ZoltanTheRed. Good vs Evil conflict has far smaller potential for interesting developments than, in example, conflict of interests, especially in a "persistent world".

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Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 07 2018, 14:09 PM 

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Personally I've loved playing my Neutral evil toon. And I consistently roleplay the wolf in a herd of sheep mentality. It has worked rather well for me. I have caused a good amount of material for good and evil players alike doing it.

I can honestly tell you there is a decent amount of evil toons around the server as I main one of them. As well as several shady neutral characters.

The trick is just finding them as a decent amount of them don't actively lounge around the Dale.

Some idle around Tarkuul but MOST find themselves within Demonreach. Due to its isolation from good aligned ramifications and the utter lack of PvP restrictions for those that try.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 07 2018, 14:36 PM 

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Make a series of magic rings and gift them to the leaders of the free world as christmas gifts, leave them to marvel at your generous nature and unrelenting support to their ideal.
Then bask in their stupidity as you forge a master ring with which to find them, draw them together and in the darkness bind them... *evil laughter*

Seriously though, I doubt anyone would willingly take a magic ring from someone who presented themselves as evil from the start. That's seriously short sighted if they took the ring from an evil being in the belief he was doing out of the kindness in its own heart!

As was said, play a person more than an alignment.

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 07 2018, 14:47 PM 

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walnutboy wrote:
Seriously though, I doubt anyone would willingly take a magic ring from someone who presented themselves as evil from the start. That's seriously short sighted if they took the ring from an evil being in the belief he was doing out of the kindness in its own heart!


Somebody needs to buff up on his LoTR lore. :P They didn't know what he was up to until it was too late, which is the smart way to play evil. Sauron the deceiver, or his alias at that time, Annatar, "Lord of Gifts" knew that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. LoTR is an excellent reference if ever your stuck for ideas or directions to take.

walnutboy wrote:
As was said, play a person more than an alignment.


But the nine alignment spectrums are a bit more tangible in the D&D setting. RP your character and their values sure, but your character should have an alignment that reflects that. It's more of a flexible guide during your RP. You shouldn't be a lawful-evil character with chaotic-good tendencies or vice versa, if you are then you probably chose the wrong alignment to represent your character.

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waswar
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 17:15 PM 

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MightNMagic wrote:
It's just pragmatism.

Being purely self-centered is just neutrality. Taking that to the extreme of destructiveness is evil.


This is where the alignment system seems to go all over the place when it comes to differentiating what is evil, with what is neutral. So this to me either comes across as a misstatement by Bioware and other like minded things, perhaps a misconception from yourself, or the entire system seeming to be all over the place.

It seems to be that evil ranges from pseudo-neutral characters that are willing to do downright evil things for their ambitions, or simply behind closed doors, to maintain their social status or to pursue their ambitions beforehand, to downright psychopaths and murderers that go about trying to cause destruction and tyranny, but as I said there seems to be a point of contention to whether the prior is actually evil, or simply neutral.

The assassin's description specifically states that assassin's aren't evil necessarily due to a wanton desire to cause destruction, but merely due to a complete lack of morals required to take the class. This seems to be the perfect case in having a character completely willing to do evil things, but not necessarily be an unhinged psychopath. In other regards, their evilness possibly includes a deception in which a character may come across as unassuming, or strange but otherwise charming, but delve into things or have ulterior motives that square them in the evil category.


But I don't think it's the nature of evil itself that is the problem. For the Bhaanites were powerful for quite a while, and it took the destruction of multiple temples that Bhaanite player spent millions on to have their locations leaked by metagaming good players so they could blow up these temples until the Bhaanites were broke and without spirit to continue.

The Drow also come to mind. Two settlements annihilated, and their final one, Nec'perya, had to start off superbly weakly. Not only that, but due to the tendency of good players to sneak in and cause a ruckus, whereas of evil characters did the opposite they would be punished for power-gaming the guards, they had to make access restrictive. So Nec'Perya was the roleplay hub of Drow, but new Drow started in the comparatively empty L'obsul, with little idea in how to get to Nec'Perya. This is effectively gating new players off from even joining the Drow.

Fast-forward to the Chromatic Covenant. After the Bhaanite dude and Tiefling aren't really able to build a fortress in the open world due to the probability of level 40 good NPC's showing up to blow it down, their level of power on the surface is very much capped. The Chromatic Covenant eventually gets a large player following, and Amia is hitting 40 players again. So, since they can't build up their own base, they have to take it from other evil players. Queue them taking Nec'Perya.

Interestingly enough, unlike Cordor and Kohlingen who would have more level 40 npc's ready to defend the place than one can shake a stick at, the Drow Nec'Peryan guards are apparently useless bimbos there for decoration, so effectively the entire point of building up a defensible area for Lolthite players is completely pointless. Well anyway, after wiping out the Lolthites, the Chromatics have Nec'Perya, now Thraan'dariv. It's a large, active faction, things are looking good, but a few players are leaving due to some disagreements with DM's.

Queue a Nazi decision by certain DM's to do something about Achuak'iejir. Great, the faction leader is gone, and with them, the regular, up-to-20 presence shrinks down to about 5, for events. Then the server starts shrinking to about 20 again. And it's only been getting worse since then, with very minimal resurgence.

Yeah, I don't think evil is the problem. Evil is completely capable of shaking things up and having large, active factions. The problem is how evil players are treated at an OOC level. It's not necessarily hostility, but it is downright apathy in contrast to what good players get, in which case I don't blame so many of them for balling out.


Last edited by waswar on Sat, Sep 08 2018, 19:34 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 17:45 PM 

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Why actually deal with evil aligned player characters when you can get them banned? It has happened.

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Last edited by PuresoulX2 on Sun, Sep 09 2018, 0:43 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Guardian
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 18:01 PM 

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waswar wrote:
Yeah, I don't think evil is the problem. Evil is completely capable of shaking things up and having large, active factions. The problem is how evil players are treated at an OOC level. It's not necessarily hostility, but it is downright apathy in contrast to what good players get, in which case I don't blame so many of them for balling out.


This is absolutely the point.

Well said (written), sir.

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Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
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The Little Dragon
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 19:40 PM 



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For defining alignment viewtopic.php?f=103&t=90645

Anyways, if you truely want to cause evil and suffering then make a plan of action and do what you need to do to cause what you want to happen. Remember that the server is slowly, but surely, changing. So plan accordingly. An action that IGly or OOCly would not have worked could now.

As for the hostility, you have to understand that being evil, in its very nature, is not good for a community of people which want to socialize rather than have actual conflict.

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waswar
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 20:18 PM 

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The Little Dragon wrote:
For defining alignment viewtopic.php?f=103&t=90645

Anyways, if you truely want to cause evil and suffering then make a plan of action and do what you need to do to cause what you want to happen. Remember that the server is slowly, but surely, changing. So plan accordingly. An action that IGly or OOCly would not have worked could now.

As for the hostility, you have to understand that being evil, in its very nature, is not good for a community of people which want to socialize rather than have actual conflict.


Seeing as Amia has went from a server that was consistantly full on Server A and 40/64 on Server B to under 20 a day, whilst I will acquiesce that it's likely that many of the current players prefer socializing, but it's quite a possibility that the Amia playerbase as a whole at least did enjoy when meaningful conflict happened, even if there were cases in which good players initiated PVP 12 times and went unpunished and evil players were hounded over being killed in illegal PVP, and a large amount of Bhaanites were mistakenly banned the day before the temple they spent over 30 million gold on was imploded by some good crusaders.


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 22:02 PM 

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Stating as someone that was personally involved with the Chromatic Faction as a Co-L @Waswar. I can honestly say over a year of intensive roleplay as well as a full on 15-20 PC raid as well as several NPC involvements. Not limited to house Zaru'tar.

So ALOT of work went into it. Not like it was this 'weak' couple of day ordeal.

And the reason the faction ended up dissipating was due to the fact that the two people that inherited the faction after said inconvenience. Which was both myself and Eltryptitch, did not have the self motivation and personal drive in order to run it ourselves and keep it alive.

As such most retired from Amia as they were single toon players. Or, they focused on other investments.

I cannot speak for the Bhannite group but as far as the chromatic faction goes.... Stormwind brought it upon himself. Especially with his 'apology' post a few days before he was supposed to be unbanned basically giving the community the middle finger. He had the ability to come back and pick up where he left off. But instead decided to react in that way and run away from the community as a whole.

Speaking as a general evil player myself as I main one I've had absolutely no OOC issue that has blended into IC.

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waswar
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 22:27 PM 

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So Achuak did something bad after the fact. Big whoop. If I had been wrongfully punished and as a result the faction I put a lot of work and time in was dead as a result of general admin biases by the time I returned, I can't see why I would even begin to sugar-coat my reaction, so good for Achuak. The decision was an unsustainable one on the part of the DM's anyway, but it was probable they did not anticipate that the action would have killed off the server as it did.

And sure, the drop-off wasn't immediate, but going from 20 players in L'obsul even after a few like the Black Dragon Disiple-Pale Master dude and a few others dropped out due to anger with the DM's, but even after that, with yet, you guys leading, there was still a big drop-off from the faction, when a high amount of Chromatics were on up until the day Achuak was banned. Then they were some on for events. And then there were barely any for events. And now there's no more.

Why do you even think many of those were single toon players? Maybe because the Chromatic Covenant was the first thing that drew away from the Kohl-Dale social club in a while?

And in fact, as far as I can with with Achuak, that was only reciprocation. Still can't blame him.


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 08 2018, 23:44 PM 

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Considering there was a lot more going on, for a long time, with said 'situation' than most people are aware of, it's probably best that you drop it. You don't have all the information so you finger wagging at the DMs for perceived asshattery is pointless.

That's all I'm going to say because I'm not a DM.

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Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 0:46 AM 

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Tetrik, my Duergar is evil on paper.

But to me, he is a mercenary. He do anything for a bit of gold but he is lawful, he got a code, he think lawlessness is horrible. In his mind Demonreach and Cordor West need to be conquered and structured up to function. He also think some things can be gone to far. But boundaries is there. Just his view of order is essentially, rule by power, defend the structure and order with power. Weak need to be ruled over and protected. Even if it takes a harsh rule, they be worse of in the lawless domain.

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Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 0:48 AM 

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Well, poke me in game or out of if anyone wants to chill on evil toons.

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May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 2:58 AM 

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LE like that is so damn neat, it's why Bane is one of my fave deities (ironic cause Lolth is equally my fave hahah). Then again, just about any Evil tickles my fancy. I don't discriminate, every facet of the server should be able to thrive, somehow. The key to remember is that not every facet can thrive at the same time. Maybe Chaos get the upper hand someplace only to be overthrown by Law. Who knows!

Biggest thing is we need to be awesome to each other, regardless of the characters that we play. We're all here to have fun, so long as no one is being an asshole OOC then there shouldn't be any hard feelings :D

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Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 13:06 PM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
LE like that is so damn neat, it's why Bane is one of my fave deities (ironic cause Lolth is equally my fave hahah). Then again, just about any Evil tickles my fancy. I don't discriminate, every facet of the server should be able to thrive, somehow. The key to remember is that not every facet can thrive at the same time. Maybe Chaos get the upper hand someplace only to be overthrown by Law. Who knows!

Biggest thing is we need to be awesome to each other, regardless of the characters that we play. We're all here to have fun, so long as no one is being an asshole OOC then there shouldn't be any hard feelings :D


It is a thin line to walk, especially in "competitive" enviroments when one sometimes want to murder the other team :lol:

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 17:25 PM 

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Naivatkal wrote:
Considering there was a lot more going on, for a long time, with said 'situation' than most people are aware of, it's probably best that you drop it. You don't have all the information so you finger wagging at the DMs for perceived asshattery is pointless.

That's all I'm going to say because I'm not a DM.


I have the information that I need seeing as I was associated with these people outside of both Amia and the forums, due to my utter curiosity as to how the faction went from being massive and constantly on during prime-time, to becoming much akin to the Drow where they would never hop on except for one or two people, or during an eventual event, in which case I learned the situation from non-DM individuals or their associates. You'll pardon me if I take their side over the other side, as I won't be convinced of an argument by authority.

And if you're advising I stop due to possible punishments, to be frank, my will to not be banned has eroded bit by bit since the server has consistently been 12 people and under. Sure it's blunt, but this is the internet, if anyone wants nice, they can go dress in a dress and have a tea party. When the server is currently a social game of good-aligned characters not doing anything, I am not threatened by it.

And whilst we're on that, if we are going to continue to praise the DM's as infallible and holier-than-thou, we are going to continue seeing situations where, okay it's quarter after one right now, there's ten people on the server. I mean, what, would you like me to give them a medal for their accomplishments? And even then, one of the DM's responsible is no longer on the DM team. If the current DM's are insulted by my lambasting the previous ones, then they're taking offense over the wrong thing, because all that I ask from the current ones is a change of mindset taking Amia forward.


If we want Amia to have evil be present, it's very simple. Give evil a city on Amia A, and in an in-the-way location, right along the major hubs. Let it be guarded by invincible creatures or a level 40 NPC army.

Until then, evil will never be a thing. For as long as it's segregated from the rest of a server E.G. being the sole character online in an inconsequential, empty, difficult-to-find settlement in the middle of nowhere, its playerbase will be low. And so long as good can continue to come in with level 40 NPC armies to blow it all up if evil doesn't have access to invincible creatures to defend itself like good has, evil will never be able to hold a candle to the power of Kohlingen and other good settlements.


 
      
Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 17:36 PM 

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Let's keep the discussion civil and on track for a solution rather than antagonistic arguing or finger pointing or it's going to get locked eventually.

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waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 17:50 PM 

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And with that, I'm throwing my weight behind this for the discussion of evil being made viable.

Needled247 wrote:
Food for thought; allow evil PC's and NPC's to create an invincible city of evil developed mostly by ambitions of PC IG RP, and make it have the same invincibility aura that Kohlingen and Cordor currently have. The thorn in the side that evil has dealt with the entire existence of Amia, but the opposite. Don't put it on Amia B. Don't create some random island for it, and pretend like it matters to the server plot. Lets not fight the germans in Madagascar during WWII and say that it matters. Lets bring evil close to the heart, and close to home. It's not like good will have anything to lose.


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 18:03 PM 

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I will still preach for the approach of unified evil. The alignments, deities and our total differences should not matter (For most part) in the objective to bring darkness to Amia. I realize not everyone will see this as possible but we really can't afford the numbers to be divided.

Praise every dark god we have.

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Devlin Faramond - Warrior Priest of Tempus
Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple, Bronze Dragon Slayer
May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


 
      
Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 18:08 PM 

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No city is invincible. Cordor is a fractured city atm and by no means good or evil but in a murky middle area. Kohlingen isn't invulnerable and can and have been attacked in the past on numerous occasions by evil player factions and currently is in a weaker position than it has been since before the creation of the Treaty of Light, the only city that is currently more or less immune/invulnerable to such on Amia is Tarkuul due to the nature of the city itself.

That said, the door is and has always been open for players to create new things and make their mark on the server, some took that chance and helped build or strengthen cities, others did the same to weaken them. Players can and does have an influence on cities and their strength, weakness or other aspects of the city. The problem is that to have this, you need long-term consistent and committed RP towards it. As has already been mentioned here, a few players have created or taken over cities, like the example with the chromatics in the underdark, another example is fort Summer which was entirely player created, another is the strong player influence that was had over parts of Cordor by taking an advantage of the discord in the city after the Reyes plot.

The opportunity is there, the big problem is that not everyone is willing to be committed to it long term and want quicker payoffs. Instant conflicts or instant powerbase, and going that route means that the area/city/faction lacks a strong foundation that can survive short or long term player absence or rotation of players in positions of power. If things are really going to change, that is one thing that has to happen for anyone to be successful, regardless of alignment or motivations. It's how some areas have become the "hubs" of activity that the are. It used to be Cordor because of player involvement, then it shifted to the forest because of player involvement, now it's Bendir. It didn't just happen overnight, players put in time and effort to make it happen. My suggestion to people is to do just that and the rest will come in time.

Edit:
Another point I'd like to make is that the path to a strong evil influence isn't killing or attacking random adventurers and screaming the name of a random dark god but in the systematic and covert assault on the foundations of whatever city you want to undermine. Want to attack Kohlingen? Find a way to influence it's people and turn them towards whatever cause you want over time, attack trade ships and caravans to weaken their income. Infiltrate and burn their fields and slaughter cattle to harm the food supply. By attacking the things a city requires to function, money for soldiers and guards and food for the citizens and guards, you have the potential to leave a far larger impact. Want to turn the isle to be more accepting towards evil or build up your own powerbase in Cordor or another city? Then target the civilians and the people, build up that influence through political or economic incentives that the people see as a gain, it's how long lasting influence can be built. You get out of it what you put in it. If you dedicate a few weeks of RP to something, then it will likely not last longer than the same amount of time you put in, it's just how things are. If you want long lasting impact or change, then it requires consistent and long term investment, and in return, it will yield long-term change or impact on a much larger scale than most would expect. However this method requires dedication and RP time devoted to that end because it requires DM assistance, but it is by no means impossible or difficult to do. Show interrest and activity and you'll get it.

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 18:18 PM 

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I do not think evil needs a hub.

Evil needs a support from DM side. Evil needs the will of others to accept the consequences of evil actions, same as we accept the consequences of goodly actions. If you show the evil guys that you are willing to accept the results of their plots and shananigans, I guarantee you you'll see a massive influx of evil guys and hence the so needed adrenaline and excitement of playing on a server that is actually PvP alive.

The moment, however, there's an action from evil side which would result in whinning it'll all go to waste - yet again.

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Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 18:27 PM 

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Gravemaskin wrote:
No city is invincible. Cordor is a fractured city atm and by no means good or evil but in a murky middle area. Kohlingen isn't invulnerable and can and have been attacked in the past on numerous occasions by evil player factions and currently is in a weaker position than it has been since before the creation of the Treaty of Light, the only city that is currently more or less immune/invulnerable to such on Amia is Tarkuul due to the nature of the city itself.

That said, the door is and has always been open for players to create new things and make their mark on the server, some took that chance and helped build or strengthen cities, others did the same to weaken them. Players can and does have an influence on cities and their strength, weakness or other aspects of the city. The problem is that to have this, you need long-term consistent and committed RP towards it. As has already been mentioned here, a few players have created or taken over cities, like the example with the chromatics in the underdark, another example is fort Summer which was entirely player created, another is the strong player influence that was had over parts of Cordor by taking an advantage of the discord in the city after the Reyes plot.

The opportunity is there, the big problem is that not everyone is willing to be committed to it long term and want quicker payoffs. Instant conflicts or instant powerbase, and going that route means that the area/city/faction lacks a strong foundation that can survive short or long term player absence or rotation of players in positions of power. If things are really going to change, that is one thing that has to happen for anyone to be successful, regardless of alignment or motivations. It's how some areas have become the "hubs" of activity that the are. It used to be Cordor because of player involvement, then it shifted to the forest because of player involvement, now it's Bendir. It didn't just happen overnight, players put in time and effort to make it happen. My suggestion to people is to do just that and the rest will come in time.


I'm sorry, but I disagree with this in the perspective of player.

The last time Cordor was sincerely threatened at its core was by the Amnish incursion. In that case, the intervention of non-evil Tarkuul in a sudden Deus-Ex Machima saved the forces of good from having to deal with a serious threat. Other than that, the fact is that it was DM events that sincerely threatened these cities, just as DM intervention on behalf of level 40 guards that can easily curb-stomp any amount of evil presences.

It is in fact quite common in the lore of Forgotton Realms and even Neverwinter Nights itself that evil bastions suddenly appear, and in none of these stories are they instantly destroyed by 50 npc guards. And do you believe that it would be difficult for the players to make a bastion out of a set city, a real, important city, not out of the way, and one that can withstand a sudden onslaught of good characters?

One can't have an evil city in an important spot without having it be strong. One can't start off a new city without being strong in a pre-existing manner, especially since the way all the land has been claimed means that NPC guards will step in and curbstomp any upstarts. And as soon as an evil character is beginning the foundations of something, good is going to destroy it.

I mean no disrespect to Fort Summer, for this is the fault of none of the players, but what exactly has it achieved after quite a long time of nurture? The same can be asked of Nec'Perya. If Cordor and Kohlingen can have level 40 NPC's that can detect people of the faction they don't like and thus you can't enter without metagaming guards(at least in Kohlingen), why can't years of development in Nec'Perya do the same?

In fact, it is to the point that both factions were completely stifled as they had to remain secretive and non-threatening to continue their existence. Fort Summer due to the threat of being blown up as soon as it put up stone walls, and Nec'Perya had to essentially cut off contact due to infiltration of good characters, meaning that new Drow and other Underdark characters had practically no way of getting into Nec'Perya until they had the off-hand chance of running into an associated Drow, until the starting room was changed and accommodated Nec'Perya, after it was already plagued by inactivity and nonexistent growth. Why wasn't Nec'Perya allowed to have a mage detecting good and a level 40 NPC guard ready to counter infiltrative Eilistreaans with the charge of metagaming should they have bound to the leystone?


 
      
Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 18:43 PM 

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It wasn't disallowed, it wasn't done because players didn't create it. You say didn't allow this and that but that's blatantly wrong, because there's a difference between having a thing and having been denied a thing. Kohlingen has the mage guard because of player involvement, it was players that suggested the idea, it was players that trained the first mage guards and it was players that put forth to have them implemented into the regular guard. I know this because I was the player that helped create them, it was the culmination of my 2+ years of RP in Kohlingen by getting my character, Christian Vipont to the position of Magister where he had the political influence, with the help of others, to push an idea like that trough. That's why Kohlingen has the mage guard, and it took a long time to get it with hundreds of hours invested towards that goal. And any other city can do the same, if the players work for it. Stuff like that isn't just given out over night. And having to work like that to get it, means that it isn't something that's going to go away over night. Having had the hand I did in the creation of Kohlingen's mage guard is probably one of the accomplishments I'm most proud of, because it's something I put the time and energy into and helped create.

Also slight correction but the guards and soldiers of Kohlingen aren't level 40 that can 1v1 any player they want. Cordor has the Law knights, which are the closest you get to it. Kohlingen has a few at a similar power level but they are the bodyguards of the Justicar. What the soldiers do have though, are numbers, which is why I specifically said that the best way to wound the city isn't with an all-out attack unless you have the same amount of numbers or more on your side. (And given it's a fortified city with walls and siege equipment, you'd likely need quite a bit larger numbers than they have). It's for the same reason that any old good character or group can't attack and take down Tarkuul. Players on their own don't have the numbers for it, so you need to build up a powerbase that can help you to get it done.

As for evil creating a bastion somewhere, no I don't believe it would be too difficult to help build up a powerbase in an already established city, like Cordor for instance. What i do believe is that it would take time and Rp investment to get it done and for it to survive the "infancy" phase as evil factions have a tendency to either implode due to internal conflict, conflict with other evil groups or by drawing too much attention before they are established and prepared enough to defend their powerbase. If it survives that, then there is every chance that it can endure. As someone who helped shape and lead a "gray area" faction, the Eternal Order, I can certainly attest to the latter part of my point, where the entire faction more or less was wiped out because we picked a fight they shouldn't have. (This is the First Eternal Order I'm referring to, not one of the later iterations that came further down the road in the wake of the destruction of the first)

Also to make it clear, if any player good or evil infiltrates a place where it's illegal for them to be, without DM oversight, that's metagaming the guards and a DM should be contacted so that appropriate measures can be taken towards the offending player. If there was an evil city that banned people who worshipped good deities, and someone who worships a banned deity entered the city without DM oversight, that's metagaming the guards and illegal. However some places, like Tarkuul doesn't ban anyone in the same way as Kohlingen or Winya Ravana does, and so it's not something that comes up very often for the "good" side.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 19:20 PM 



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I don't think topics like these add anything to server. Want DM attention? Ask a DM. Want to start a faction? Do so. But complaining about how hard evil has it will do nothing.

That said, Demonreach is a -really- simple easy place to set up a base, and it offers pretty good protection, to be honest. That's an evil hub. Yeah, you have to do the "dev work" of area design yourself, but I know for a fact there's a few players that enjoy that stuff. 2.5 mil? Level a PC to 30, and you'll have 1 mil, at least. A faction of... 5 people? 500k each, simple. All you need is the people willing to help. There's quite a few "evil players" these days. So, lure enough in, and you're good. But don't come on the server and complain about how nothing gets done. Thraan'dariv is an empty city right now, you could invade is, just like the Chromatic Covenant did. Just don't fuck up and break server rules.

The way I see it, at the current times, it's up to the players to do stuff. If that fails, then yeah, we have an example. But the last example of open evil that was on Amia was the latest Tarkuul group, and it did some evil stuff. Maybe not kill Cordor, but maybe ask Kohl about some stuff.

The latest -failed- faction, that did stuff openly was the Chromatic Covenant. But that's what? Two years ago. Guess how many DMs from that times are still DMs? 3? If you don't trust them, go to another DM. If you think the whole DM team is out to get you, sorry, but there's nothing to be saved on Amia, then.
The playerbase largely changed as well. Many "all-stars" are gone, and many new people came. So stop complaining or get in game.

But, if you really think the server is rotten... How does complaining on the forums help anything?


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 19:21 PM 

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Gravemaskin wrote:
It wasn't disallowed, it wasn't done because players didn't create it. You say didn't allow this and that but that's blatantly wrong, because there's a difference between having a thing and having been denied a thing. Kohlingen has the mage guard because of player involvement, it was players that suggested the idea, it was players that trained the first mage guards and it was players that put forth to have them implemented into the regular guard. I know this because I was the player that helped create them, it was the culmination of my 2+ years of RP in Kohlingen by getting my character, Christian Vipont to the position of Magister where he had the political influence, with the help of others, to push an idea like that trough. That's why Kohlingen has the mage guard, and it took a long time to get it with hundreds of hours invested towards that goal. And any other city can do the same, if the players work for it. Stuff like that isn't just given out over night. And having to work like that to get it, means that it isn't something that's going to go away over night. Having had the hand I did in the creation of Kohlingen's mage guard is probably one of the accomplishments I'm most proud of, because it's something I put the time and energy into and helped create.


And I'm willing to bet that whilst Kohlingen had these mage-guards trained, it was already a nigh-impenetrable bastion anyway, and the creation of these guards only compounded the fact?

And there has been years-long development put into Nec'Perya and Fort Summer, which made deals with other factions and made their own defenses that should an attack occur, they would hopefully be able to counter it. Of course, there was only so much they could put into defense against the players, since the DM's made very clear and present dangers to these factions anyway. Which is rather interesting; in being safe from good factions by choosing these remote locations, that are completely antithetical to new players, they were given grave threats from the environment instead, that very march prevented the growth of resources and NPC allies.

These went completely to waste in Nec'Perya. I witnessed a great many discussions and foci into the defenses of Nec'Perya from the Aboleth to the hordes of the humanoid fish creatures that share the Sahuagin model. So, in trying to make these places defensible and remote from players to maintain their safety, they're left exposed to NPC's, particularly difficult to reach and counter ones, to the point where focusing on them leads to the area being completely indefensible against players.

Of course, there was nothing to prevent the DM's from having a small amount of NPC survivors from Ultrinnan or Edonil operate as guards to keep the city from being ROFL-stomped, seeing as the actual guards of Nec'Perya were useless. I'm sure you can see the discouragement, where, twice-destroyed, the Drow's years of development into their third and final city lead absolutely nowhere with nothing to show for their efforts.

Apologies but if multiple years after having previous settlements with competent guards arbitarily destroyed does not allow a faction to have even competent guards, but it very much does seem like it is not allowed. When the last example is Kohlingen, it's hard to shake off that, sure, it may be within the rules for evil to do the same, but it's not possible in practice.

Gravemaskin wrote:
Also slight correction but the guards and soldiers of Kohlingen aren't level 40 that can 1v1 any player they want. Cordor has the Law knights, which are the closest you get to it. Kohlingen has a few at a similar power level but they are the bodyguards of the Justicar. What the soldiers do have though, are numbers, which is why I specifically said that the best way to wound the city isn't with an all-out attack unless you have the same amount of numbers or more on your side. (And given it's a fortified city with walls and siege equipment, you'd likely need quite a bit larger numbers than they have). It's for the same reason that any old good character or group can't attack and take down Tarkuul. Players on their own don't have the numbers for it, so you need to build up a powerbase that can help you to get it done.


But again, they exist for both factions. And seeing as there have been occurances with the penchant to show up at the right moment and the right time, particularly in Cordor, the severely powerful guards are quite apparent in their existence. And like I said, Nec'Perya had a number of guards within the city, quite a few scattered about the place, and they provided practically nothing for the Drow, so the whole numbers thing seems to be thrown out of the window when it comes to Evil, but when good has numbers, it's a "big dea", you better be careful before you get permadeathed!

But that isn't the only thing for them to not attack Tarkuul. They wouldn't want to, considering Tarkuul saved their asses in a deus ex machima against Amn, and with the voice preventing any evil thoughts from occuring, Tarkuul is the token anti-hero faction simply with a dark aesthetic.

Gravemaskin wrote:
What i do believe is that it would take time and Rp investment to get it done and for it to survive the "infancy" phase as evil factions have a tendency to either implode due to internal conflict, conflict with other evil groups or by drawing too much attention before they are established and prepared enough to defend their powerbase.


Pardon, but when the "infancy" lasts for years with very minimal growth, it does lend much dedication from evil players who have to put ridiculous amounts of time into factions and have them still be completely indefensible, and void of services and resources. Why do you think the Chromatic Covenant attacked Nec'Perya? The nature of the server, with good so powerful, forces evil to take itself out just so that another faction could have some semblance of a base that wouldn't be immediately invaded the first moment a good character farts in its direction.

Gravemaskin wrote:
Also to make it clear, if any player good or evil infiltrates a place where it's illegal for them to be, without DM oversight, that's metagaming the guards and a DM should be contacted so that appropriate measures can be taken towards the offending player. If there was an evil city that banned people who worshipped good deities, and someone who worships a banned deity entered the city without DM oversight, that's metagaming the guards and illegal. However some places, like Tarkuul doesn't ban anyone in the same way as Kohlingen or Winya Ravana does, and so it's not something that comes up very often for the "good" side.


This was done by good Drow. On the contrary, I don't mind that they did it, and I don't think the other evil Drow did at an OOC level. But let's be clear: The opposite is impossible in many locales. I am of the opinion that if we want more evil characters, we're going to have to lessen restrictions on them until the characters are found to be deserving of them. The Mage guards would be fine if they only intervened when their presence was necessary in response to rumors. But instead, they act as a passive OOC barrier that prevents an evil character from even meandering in their direction.


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 19:24 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
The latest -failed- faction, that did stuff openly was the Chromatic Covenant. But that's what? Two years ago. Guess how many DMs from that times are still DMs? 3? If you don't trust them, go to another DM. If you think the whole DM team is out to get you, sorry, but there's nothing to be saved on Amia, then.
The playerbase largely changed as well. Many "all-stars" are gone, and many new people came. So stop complaining or get in game.

But, if you really think the server is rotten... How does complaining on the forums help anything?


waswar wrote:
And even then, one of the DM's responsible is no longer on the DM team. If the current DM's are insulted by my lambasting the previous ones, then they're taking offense over the wrong thing, because all that I ask from the current ones is a change of mindset taking Amia forward.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 19:46 PM 



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How can you ask for a change of mindset, if you only know the mindset from some people 2 years ago?

It's like, when meeting someone for the first time, telling them "I hope you're not an asshole". It makes you seem weird. If you want to do anything for the server, then do it. Don't whine on the forum about how people were unfair two years ago.

I can spend a few years whining about how unfair people were to me my whole life. Does it solve anything? No. Doing something -now- solves things. Get in game, make a faction. If you -then- get banned "for no reason", there's an unfair mindset. I'm saying the current mindset is perfect for evil. Prove me wrong.


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 20:00 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
How can you ask for a change of mindset, if you only know the mindset from some people 2 years ago?


robbi320 wrote:
The latest -failed- faction, that did stuff openly was the Chromatic Covenant. But that's what? Two years ago. Guess how many DMs from that times are still DMs? 3?


I don't know, you tell me.

robbi320 wrote:
I can spend a few years whining about how unfair people were to me my whole life. Does it solve anything? No. Doing something -now- solves things. Get in game, make a faction. If you -then- get banned "for no reason", there's an unfair mindset. I'm saying the current mindset is perfect for evil. Prove me wrong.


Its nonexistence. The fact that there's no guarrantee it would not simply be a continuation of what's been going on for years.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 20:09 PM 



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There's no guarantee that aliens aren't living in the hollow core of the earth, and now that you know they'll shoot me the next time I go outside.

If I were to go outside, though, I might be able to prove/disprove it, rather than post conspiracy theories on the internet.



And if you're not willing to put the effort to find out which dms were there 2 years ago versus now, I'm not either.


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 20:33 PM 

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Well, not just two years ago. Nec'Perya before that, I was part of, then many of us know the story of the Bhaanites.

And sure, you can sit there on your passive-aggressive high horse saying "Get in game and change it", but after years of multiple players putting forth a lot of effort, it's effectively beating a horse that died through exhaustion.

Unfortunately, when you spend time and gold on factions that just crumble to dust or blow up after a long time or when the first person who farts sees it, the whole thing becomes rather tiring. I think that logically speaking anyone would learn from one travesty not to impart so many resources into another doomed experiment, least without some DM assistance in getting it up and running. And even then, you run into the same core problems as above.

But I think it's a self-perpetuating problem of:

A: Being in the middle of nowhere, which leads to
1: Inhibiting new players from being in the middle of nowhere; who will run into it, or even find the faction base?
2: Pointing to the faction as inconsequential, due to lack of many meaningful things, such as services, resources, or even just getting to the area without a hassle.

And in this case, the faction doesn't grow because it's unimportant, but it's not going to become important since it doesn't grow.

And
B: Restrictions due to your alignment.
Simply put, an evil character loses a lot more in being evil than vice-versa, especially in access to cities and services. It is literally the case with good players that you will more easily become powerful due to the established factions and their resources, and many old-time players being generous and giving out epic items(and I'm not saying this is a bad thing), where a self-interested character can literally get more off from being at least aligned as "good".


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 20:49 PM 



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Yeah. Dredging things up from years ago will solve the problem.

Also, based off the last few points... When was the last time you logged on here. Ever been to Demonreach? Then you know that making an evil faction base isn't hard. I have single characters that could build their own fortress now.


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 20:55 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
Yeah. Dredging things up from years ago will solve the problem.

Also, based off the last few points... When was the last time you logged on here. Ever been to Demonreach? Then you know that making an evil faction base isn't hard. I have single characters that could build their own fortress now.



Demonreach is far too small, isolated and honestly one of the most half-assed developed areas (Besides hangman's cove) I've ever seen. Sure, it has less restricted pvp rules but that doesn't matter much. Nobody on the good side has a reason to go there.

_________________
Devlin Faramond - Warrior Priest of Tempus
Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple, Bronze Dragon Slayer
May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 20:59 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Which is exactly why you can set up a fortress there. Besides, if you don't like how it's in the middle of nowhere, there's a cave by the Bloodmoon orcs, and a few other areas you could use as a "fast faction base". Or, otherwise, explain what you wanbt? And "evil to have a place" isn't an answer. I already said it does. Prove me wrong.


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 21:05 PM 

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Joined: 22 Nov 2013

robbi320 wrote:
Yeah. Dredging things up from years ago will solve the problem.

Also, based off the last few points... When was the last time you logged on here. Ever been to Demonreach? Then you know that making an evil faction base isn't hard. I have single characters that could build their own fortress now.


And the things from years ago are rather relevant to the discussion. Having been part of three factions that were either destroyed or went nowhere, all evil, I will re-iterate that it is draining to have multiple travesties occur, and that it is logical if one does not wish to continue given the pattern.

Why are these things relevant? Because it explains what's been happening in the post-Bhaanite status quo, which was primarily brought about due to DM's from back then and a in my opinion, nonsensical reaction from the DM's controlling Zhentil Keep.

I've stated multiple times that isolated areas are exactly what is not needed, because it will, as I reiterate, keep the evil characters isolated, with minimal reaction, of no threat to good players, and continually unimportant.

robbi320 wrote:
And "evil to have a place" isn't an answer. I already said it does. Prove me wrong.

And which place is that?


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 21:29 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

The place is called Amia.


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 21:38 PM 

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Joined: 22 Nov 2013

Minus a great portion of it :lol:


 
      
Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 21:58 PM 

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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Location: Helms Hold

I'm with robbi320 on this one waswar.

Constantly bringing up the past, being bitter when you don't even play here anymore (I'm assuming since you dodged the question if you even log in anymore) helps absolutely nothing. We have heard for years now nothing but negative from the old School Evil folks. Shit happens, get over it. Especially if you don't even play currently or even intend on returning.

Don't continue to put a dark cloud and distract from what the new, and almost completely new DM is and has been doing. Tarkuul is and has pretty much been untouchable. Demonreach is a new beast. Evil can thrive now, they just need a common thread to tie their efforts together.

The first time i came to this server back in 2011, i was so called befriended by a Bantie player, and all they did was try to recruit me and bash Dm's. It is rare lately, but has been going on since i arrived. Please stop beating a dead horse.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 09 2018, 23:49 PM 

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

fort summer took over the entire frozenfar + some and was hamstrung into the ground by poor dev attendance and direction including RL year long delays on simple updates that the faction was then told counted against their nebulous allotment of dm and dev time for help

also had no less than 3 plans in place for other aspects of the server that went unrealized for the same reason, everything ready to go, but 0 dm and dev support

just fyi on like, 'what did fort summer accomplish'

took over a vast swath of the server and resisted 3 pc led attempts to destroy it and had massive npc and pc backup

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
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