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Yossarin
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 07 2012, 4:39 AM 



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Joined: 23 Jan 2006

*Title provided by the wit and wisdom of LetumLux

To start off, let me say that this is not a thread that tells you the right way to roleplay. The right way to roleplay is a way that is fun for you and does minimal harm to others, and that leaves a correctly broad definition. I am not saying that anything is going to be forced or changed, but simply providing you with what I consider obvious food for thought (it isn't so obvious to everyone).

A lot of players refer to alt-itis. Where you play a ton of alternate characters. You have your evil neck romancer, your chaotic neutral fuck this shit character, your goody two shoes pladadin, your numerous clerics of easily overlooked deities (or just easily overlooked clerics), that dwarf barbarian you made the night you were drunk, the wizard you made because Ulrik inspired you, the wizard you made because you wanted to design a spell and never got around to it, the wizard you made because you wanted to see how well playing an illusionist worked (it didn't), the sorceror you use for getting into romantic entanglements because it has a high charisma and that is necessary for anyone finding you attractive, maybe a bard in there somewhere, or a fighter because you just felt bad for the class.

Some of you try on these ideas and then pass on them like ill-fitting dresses, relegating them to the bargain rack (and inevitably beg us later to clean them out of your account). Some of you keep them around for rainy days, or windy days, or sunny days, or shitty days, or days where you only have forty minutes to play, or days where you just feel like grinding, and you bring out each one for just such an occasion.

Some of these very same players afflicted with alt-itis also complain, agree with, or otherwise acknowledge a reality about our server: that sometimes it seems like the same characters wind up in the same DM events, or wind up having so much influence in groups and factions that beginning characters (often played by beginning players!) can't break into the spotlight, or at the very least, can't get the kind of foothold they want to for their own roleplaying. Attempting to say that this is all in their heads or that such a thing doesn't happen is disingenuous. It does happen. I think anyone who says it doesn't happen is blind. But since it does happen, it is important to look at the actual reason why it happens.

In my experience as a DM, both here and elsewhere, the most successful characters are the ones a player puts the most attention into. You folks with alt-itis call them your "mains". You put in hours and hours and days and days and weeks and weeks and months and months and even years playing that one character, over and over again, getting into new situations, different situations, tweaking the personality a little here and there as necessary, treating it like a real, living human being. Nivo does this with Ulrik, BoB does this with Neveah, gorgometh does this Avadon, Grymia does this with Tuomas (currently, though he has consistently done this with other PCs in the past), Charles1810 does this with Belalad, Bobo did this with Lyle and now with Andrew, Jes does it with Zelly, Phearnun does it with Robert, and I did with Yossarin when I was a player; if you look at this very brief list, you will notice that some of these people are the very people who get complained about, though never mentioned by name, as the "Amian all-stars" who seem to be so omnipresent. And that is not even the complete list of people, it is just the ones I could come up with off the top of my head (and that very fact right there shows you how prevalent what I'm getting at is: that these are the only individuals that register in my immediate memory. Remember that.)

My apologies to all of those players for dragging you into this example.

Now, these players do have alts. Some of them have more than others. But by and large, they dedicate copious amounts of time to their mains, often to the detriment of the success of their alts or at times the complete exclusion thereof.

When you dedicate a lot of time and energy into one character, you have the freedom to "network" as it were. Do not even get into the argument of "but my character is not very social and thus it is hard to get there!" I have played non-social and even anti-social characters in the past, but I, as a player, always manage to manufacture reasons why I have to interact with others. I don't wait for the "have to" to come to me, I invent the have to myself, because otherwise, what's the fucking point of playing the character?

What does this conscious or subconscious networking do? It makes your name known. It makes people talk about you. It puts you into the collective consciousness of the playerbase. It means you suddenly start to become a focus of minor attention, and potentially major attention. It often has the side effect of bringing more roleplay (the above players can attest that it is often more roleplay than you can ever handle alone!) to you and thus more opportunities to develop your character into something lasting and fun to play. It all feeds and boils like a hurricane.

This can get stressful. You can feel like that character has to be everything to everybody. But when it reaches that fever pitch, it is the glorious opportunity to dramatically display your flaws, weaknesses, your humanity, by proving that while you aren't a one-trick pony, you're far from a winged pegasus that glides on the wind with a penis the size and color of a rainbow.

My point? Players with alt-itis, you are always going to have a hard time transforming any single one of your characters into a lasting, interesting, well-developed characters that can be plugged into the "networking" model unless you struggle against your desire to create alternates and stick with a character, through thick and through thin, through good and through bad, sickness health, even XP-taking, fortune-raping death. Sure, you have what you believe to be good reasons for creating alts, and I have no need to list them here. You are justified in doing so. After all, it is your time and your entertainment.

However, you cannot have your cake and eat it, too.

As a DM, it is my responsibility to create situations and opportunities for roleplay that will extend beyond my own influence, beyond my own time on the server. My style utilizes PCs as much as I can in favor of NPCs (it doesn't seem that way at times, sure, but this thread is my way of trying to point out that I don't have as much to work with as I would like!) In order to utilize PCs, I have to know that the players are going to stick to those PCs and carry on something for a long time and with lasting power. In putting Nev into a position of roleplaying with criminal PCs in Cordor, I need to know that she is going to stick to that character and is going to play with such a level of intensity that the players playing criminal PCs are going to get great interaction and great roleplay. I need to know that that the player I give a large task to on behalf of the city is going to play that character who has been given the task consistently, and not bog down the amount of time it takes to accomplish that task because that player only plays that character every other week, or "whenever she feels like it". I need to know that the players I select for something are going to be able to carry out that energy as far as it needs to go, and sadly, players with alt-itis have consistently disappointed me in this department.

You may say, "Oh, I have a lot of alts, but if I am given just ONE distinguishing thing to do with ONE of those characters, I will play that character religiously!"

I've tried that. It doesn't happen, and those of you with serious cases of alt-itis can probably do a self-assessment and come to that conclusion. Your attention spans wander when you don't get the immediate gratification you want, as in, the player you want to play with isn't on, the characters you want to play with aren't on, so you just play a different character instead of the one you "need" to be playing (need in quotations because it isn't real life need.)

And if your alts are arranged that way as pointed out in the paragraph above (I play this alt when these people are online, and this alt when those people are online, and this other alt when those people are online), you are limiting yourselves terribly. You are placing your characters' lives at the mercy of other players' availability, instead of letting them roll outside of a comfort zone, beyond the guarantee of actual roleplay. You are forced to seek, to find new opportunities for roleplay with other people, new people, dangerous people!.

But this doesn't ever happen if you keep switching characters around. As a DM in my DM'ing, if you do this, I have no guarantees that I can tell a consistent story when the faces keep changing. And in your interactions with other players/characters, those players/character don't have your character "coming to mind" when they need to include you in on something related to a faction, related to another PCs interests, related to a DM Event, or whatever.

TL;DR: players with alt-itis divide their time between so many characters that no single character becomes memorable or reliable for the purposes of a good story or a promise of good, quality, lasting roleplay. Alt-itis, while it is something that may be fun for you, by and large shoots you in the foot if you want to "make your break" into the consistent roleplay engine or DM Events you see other players engaged in.

Now, you can argue that you've tried this approach. You've tried to curb your alt-itis and play one character and it didn't work. There's no need to post your sob story about how it didn't work here, because I'm not claiming this is fool proof. There are some other variable elements that determine the success of this whole model, everything from sheer chance and opportunity to timezones you play in to your own personal ability to think outside the box and be creative with your character(s).

And some players are successful, even though they play a good number of alts. This is owed primarily to a magical factor in the player him- or herself, I believe, qualities that not everyone has. Letum comes to mind here.

What I am claiming is that by and large alt-itis hurts more than it helps. What I am advocating is that players consider the subject in a way they haven't before, and perhaps this post has effectively spelled out why it is detrimental...and, just maybe, make an effort to curb the desire to play a ton of alts and instead leave the comfort zone or just doggedly stick exclusively with a given character for months and months to see if you can penetrate the "who the fuck are you?" barrier.

So, again, this is not me saying you have to stop playing alts or even should. It is only me saying that you should stop playing so many alts if you want to take a shot at the richer experience of "being involved" in the server's story.


 
      
Eurgiga
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2012, 1:38 AM 

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Yossarin wrote:
Words.


I think I love you.

But on a serious note, he's right. I've been playing Corinn for maybe three months and by being consistent and sincere with her I feel like she's been given the chance to work for a lot of opportunities I wouldn't have had otherwise. Honestly, the first two months of play for her was very boring, but it was a matter of building the character, her personality, and her reputation so that people had a good idea who they were dealing with and who she is.

I know there's players who have been here a lot longer than I and characters much older than Corinn who have never gotten the limelight thanks to alt-itis. When Yoss says consistency is important, he's not kidding.

_________________
~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.


 
      
ValkinMulgin
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2012, 2:03 AM 

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Yossarin wrote:
Genius


I agree, not with the love part -.- HA !.

But really its 100% on the line, i think i have 10-15 alts, 5-6 of them really detailed and 3 of them i put a lot of work into them. It was a lot of fun playing all those characters, but it was done over 4 RL years >.< and they like alwayes are shelved for my "main" Valkins story and RP.

I experienced what Yoss spoke of before i realized that the "greatness" the awesomeness the immersion into plots story that really make you feel, love and hate characters is all about commitment to a single character.

Has the team consider putting in a system in place to encourage "main" characters, like a token that grants that main character some kind of mechanical but also personal reward for choosing a main and logging hours with it ?

Some servers have done "hero" class, where a main must be played more than all other characters, and that it gains EXP faster and in greater amount, it gains more gold and has a greater chance of collecting better loot etc, you could even make it so main class characters get a discount on DC requests ? However to earn such a token you must REALLY demonstrate to the staff that it is your main your one your only.

just an idea.

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Selmak
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 17 2012, 15:20 PM 

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It's for players to decide on their own whether concentrating on one character is better or not. Incentives don't help players to make a decision like that, they're just carrots dangling on sticks.


 
      
DolphinRacer
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 08 2012, 17:34 PM 

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My Name is Dolphinracer and I approve of Yoss's Message

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Claimh Solais
 
PostPosted: Sat, Dec 15 2012, 16:58 PM 

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This topic should be Amia's official Bible.

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Bravo21
 
PostPosted: Sat, Dec 15 2012, 17:53 PM 

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Thanks Yoss. I was really hoping for something more along the lines of how to role-play effectively with ADHD and be able to crowbar into the many cliques on the server. Unfortunately, there's just not enough pot in the world to help me past the first two or three paragraphs. Although I feel even worse for my own Alt-itis now, I'm glad you took the time to state that it wasn't actually you preaching that I'm "Doing it wrong!"

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-Krrja


 
      
Blue Moon
 
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 16 2012, 8:45 AM 



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Joined: 11 Oct 2012

I thought I was alt-addicted but after talking to some people on this server and hearing how many characters they have (6+?!) it seems a bit extraordinary so I'm going to try to dissect it.

Maybe it has something to do with the fast leveling here. When someone gets alt-itis they like to imagine how powerful their new alt will be, the only deterrent being how much time they'd have to spend to get them there... not so on Amia. If I'm able to get a character to level 20 in less than a week (say what you want about powerleveling) and THEN start roleplaying once I'm no longer weak and vulnerable, yeah it's a HUGE temptation. Because I think for even the most roleplay-oriented of us, it's important that we still have abilities and usefulness as a particular build. At the same time though, if there is nothing else to involve us (many close friends, guild involvement, comfort zone exploration), once we reach the highest "level" mechanics-wise that made us lust after that alt in the first place, it's very easy to abandon that character and start another.

Maybe it's the people I'm running with, but as a low level character I noticed others whizzing past me in levels, sometimes on 2 alts, (in a matter of days) and rushing through dungeons with very very little roleplay to accompany it (probably due to the older shorter reset times, and though that's changed, old habits die hard). Maybe I'm strange but I actually enjoy lingering on the lower and teen levels, I enjoy a challenge that makes me think rather than run around and great-cleave.

Unfortunately I've felt a lot of pressure to level faster and higher even when I didn't want to IN ORDER TO hang out with my friends or go to some new dungeon with them I never have before. All I really want to do is roleplay and explore, but they won't want to party with me if they lose xp. And that does seem to be a big factor here. I don't like feeling as if my roleplay choices are dictated by my level. I know, I know they aren't, but I still feel that way.

To get to the point of what levelling has to do with alt-itis. Right now I could possess 2 or 3 unique-concept, terribly shallow epic level characters, at the low timely cost of... 2 weeks (I estimate) of xp munching. Considering I'm ALREADY bored by a character reaching maximum level, and I've had VERY little time to invest roleplay in a guild or group or wide-array of friends that would make me stay, how likely do you think I am to stick around? I figured out I was so in love with the idea of them that I had a quickie with this character so fast I didn't even enjoy myself. "Yeah, I'll call you later"

If it's that high level power that attracts us to our characters, imagine if you had your one trusty level 25 and you started a new character. You've been playing for weeks, months and you're still only level 15 or so and you hate the feeling of sucking- so you go back to playing old-trusty every other day, and you can't dream of the amount of sleepgriefing it'd take to start another. Hurray! Alt-itis curbed. OR- You've made so many new friends and interesting encounters in that level 15 you were forced to RP consistently for months just to level them, that they now become your main.
But if you have three level 25 characters and none of them fit (because you've only roleplayed each one a month or two in total) you're going to try again, and again until you find a combination you like, thinking it must be a problem with build or concept rather than the above obvious-stated ROOTS. And roots take much more time to grow.

Maybe if everyone was given an impetus to slooooww down (I don't care if they dryhump dungeons for 4 days straight, they still won't be near epic), they'd be forced to do some roleplay on their lowbie (or midbie...) rather than rapid dungeoning, and this in turn would better aid them to not just enjoy their build or their "concept" for a few weeks/months but enjoy their CHARACTER for over a year. Or figure out that they really don't enjoy it, so they won't waste that time again in the future and think much harder before starting a new one.

I know it's ultimately that players fault if they choose leveling over roleplay and Amia shouldn't have to cater to them, but it still might help to remove the temptation even from the best of us. I'm not suggesting any drastic changes, I just know that from my perspective, even I find it tempting to make them if I can get them to a status of power so fast. But in a lot of ways I think that lack of time-sink is what attracts players here so it's very hard to say if anything should be done.

They don't need incentive, rather, to be given the discipline to roleplay to create the incentive for themselves.

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Bravo21
 
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 16 2012, 18:20 PM 

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I'd have to disagree that leveling speed is inversely proportional to role-play, as there would seem to be a number of players who can provide great RP and yet can also level in three days, many DM's included.

I would instead posit that a central component is time. There are likely very many players who, through no fault of their own, have commitments outside of Amia. Things like work, friends, family, singing in the rain, whatever. All things that limit the amount of time that can be dedicated to the interaction a particular person might be looking for on an RP server.

Which brings most people to a crux, lets face it, everything else in society shows us rewards for taking action that turns into instant gratification is the norm. So what about RP? And which is more likely for most people? If the time available is very short, does it make sense to spend it for little reward? After having thought about getting on-line and interacting with a few people all day at work, only disappointment awaits if there is no action to be had. Thus character development is tailored to the available time that a player has, and the reward over time that is acceptable for that time.

This has actually nothing to do with Yoss's dissertation, which is the foundation for long term character development. If a player spends more than four hours a day on Amia, the time scale of such long term character development is actually fairly short. However for those players that can only log in for an hour or so a day, that development is exponentially longer. So, unless some significant networking is taking place, the same lengthy development that takes a hardcore player several months is closer to a year for players that cannot devote the same amount of daily time.

So, how can one leverage their time on Amia and avoid the pitfalls of the nonsensical disease of "Alt-itis", and still attain some sort of RP fulfillment in the limited time they have available?

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja


 
      
Strawberry Stallion
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 17 2012, 5:48 AM 

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I have alt-isis. Help.

Although atleast I spend about 60%+ of the time on Mael. :)

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JoeSkinner
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 17 2012, 20:50 PM 

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The only thing bad about alt itis is that some characters have absolutely no base description or bio at all. Im not asking for an elaborate description or a novel-type bio on how you got that scar, but a height and weight, eye color, things like that can help me out with RP

unless your one of the ones that describe their physical properties in RP, which, I never hardly ever see that.

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Bini
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 17 2012, 20:53 PM 

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Yeah no... The presence of a bio isn't indicative of someone's devotion to a character, nor is a lack of a bio an indication of a toss-away alt.

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Blue Moon
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 18 2012, 5:25 AM 



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Bravo21 wrote:
I'd have to disagree that leveling speed is inversely proportional to role-play, as there would seem to be a number of players who can provide great RP and yet can also level in three days, many DM's included.


I'm wasn't talking about quality of roleplay at all, though. Has nothing to do with the temptation of being bored and knowing you could rapidly level a new build/character idea.

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"[SocksOnFeet] Arabella Amakiir: [Talk] That girl got buns, hon. "

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Spirit of Rock
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 12 2013, 1:01 AM 

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As a player who's sort of slunk around these parts for years, I can confirm that everything Yoss says is true. I'm about as memorable as a blank plank because the only times I committed to a character, other things got in the way (computer breaking, net problems, real life being real life). It's just not realistic to think you can create your character, loving the concept, and then see your dreams brought to life right from the moment you step out of the entry room portal.

What helped me the most was always remembering the names of people who I happened across that RPd well spontaneously, and asking them if they'd be interested in making a character with me, because starting alone can be difficult. Even then, the chances of coming across the right player who is playing the right character to interact really well with your character are fairly slim. You might not be on form that day, or they might not be on form that day, or somebody keeps lagging and slowing down the flow, or whatever.

I often have this super-deep complex character set up in my head, and sometimes if my first few prolonged encounters with other people don't give me the right 'feel' for the character because we're hunting and they aren't really interested in finding out the anally retentively meticulous backstory I feverishly enthused on for the previous night and day, or I feel like I came across to somebody else in the wrong manner, or any other number of things, it can make me feel less confident in my character concept and have a negative effect on my enthusiasm for playing that character. So I create a new character thinking that it's solely to do with me (which it is, but not in the way I think it is) and that a change will do me good, etc etc

The depressing thing is, to get the most out of it you have to put in time where you won't always be enjoying it 100%. But that's just the same with anything worth doing - this is you choosing to play a single note riff on your old guitar which you forget about after a couple of days, or to spend months slavering away to write a glorious symphony which you might take pride in for the rest of your life. And the best (or worst) part is, you really need the help of other people to make it that good, and they're also trying to write their own. The analogy is a bit stretched here, but you get the gist.


Last edited by Spirit of Rock on Fri, May 02 2014, 1:48 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Daimondheart
 
PostPosted: Tue, Feb 19 2013, 3:49 AM 

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I agree with Yossarin entirely. It's why I limit myself to no more than three characters on any given server though most of the time only one. Typically I'll build two characters at the start then test the waters with each. The one I end up favoring becomes my main and other(s) become forgotten, usually only brought out if server population is low and I can't find anyone to RP with at all.

However, there is one issue that has come up that brings about a similar problem regardless, real life. I don't have as much time to RP as I used to and often I can only do most of it every other weekend. The rest of the time my schedule is extremely random and I'm lucky if I can get two consecutive hours to role play on any given day. I do apologize for this ahead of time, but my real life will always take priority over my role play.

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Theander
 
PostPosted: Tue, Feb 19 2013, 5:37 AM 



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Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Location: Australia

There's something to be said for slow levelling.

I made a character less than two weeks ago, who is now ECL 17. Thanks to the help of several players he has made it this far, and this has all been done for two reasons. First, because the character concept is a fighter and commander and I wanted that to be reflected in his ability. Second, I wanted him to actually be useful in the upcoming drow event. The sacrifice? In order to power level him I've had to make him (a drow) more malleable to surface partying than he probably would have been otherwise. There is a lot to be said about slow leveling. It generates a LOT of RP potential. Yes, there are many people who want to go out for hunts and you miss out because of that, but hunt RP isn't really what these characters are after is it? And just because you're out of level range doesn't men you have to miss out.

I'd like to throw a token to Ais (player Ice), who has shown me, an on and off veteran of this server, that just because he is ECL 4 doesn't mean he can't tag along and give great roleplay to ECL 15+ parties while THEY are on a hunt. He doesn't get XP, but he follows, he roleplays, and he enjoys himself. He surprised me recently when I offered to switch characters to one more to his level so we could hunt together, he declined because he did not WANT to level up too quickly for RP reasons. This is almost the direct opposite of the character I have been primarily playing with, and makes me Really want to start my second character who will be more of this bent. This is the kind of thing that happens with slow levelling and IC, RP centric game play.

Also, I'd like to put a recommendation to all the DM's, if you'd all be so kind as to give Ice a bunch of DCs for the above, that would be fantastic.

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Machiavelli's Dead
 
PostPosted: Thu, Feb 21 2013, 6:51 AM 

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Uggg... I only have to comment here because I've now heard two people talk about how they're only playing one character now because of this post. Ok...

Things you can do while being an alt whore:

Take over Cordor (on Arelith)
Run a Maskarran cult
Play a Queen of a City - and get your head severed in a massive plot
Run a spy ring
Lead a revolt

To each his own and all, I just haven't found this to hold much veracity in my own rp, and I think it's unwise to give anyone even a smidgen of moral currency when it comes to how you spend your leisure time...

Awesome if it works for you, but don't just change how you play because someone said so. There is anecdotal evidence for both sides, but no proof either way.

Just enjoy-

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Machiavelli's Dead
 
PostPosted: Thu, Feb 21 2013, 6:53 AM 

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Also, while it's rhetorically clever to refer to playing multiple characters as a disease... it's not. Just rhetorical smoke and mirrors.

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DolphinRacer
 
PostPosted: Thu, Feb 21 2013, 11:41 AM 

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The only drawback to having one or two characters, in my book, are being ostracized from the groups that are most active in world events or from major events on the server due to race or stuff, but you should know about those restrictions, limitations and exclusions when you make characters of certain races (i.e. drow, chromatic kin, tieflings etc.)

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Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!


 
      
P Three
 
PostPosted: Thu, Feb 21 2013, 18:40 PM 

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I didnt' go down to just playing three chars because of this. Even that's "alt-itis", I guess. However, if you're really RPing and really trying to get something done on Amia, and have meaningful relationships with others (not just THAT kind), you aren't going to have time for fifteen chars. You just aren't. I barely have time for both Aly'dra and Liress, and trying to toss Vorel'isk and Nelene in there too gets hectic sometimes.

Do what you feel is best. But know that really devoting yourself to a char takes time, effort, and a lot of laughs and tears along the way.

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Yee-haw!


Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm


 
      
Murex
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 18 2013, 21:44 PM 

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So far the DMs seem to be doing quite a lot, and Amia is much better now then it was before because of this. The last couple of months have been great.

P Three wrote:
I didnt' go down to just playing three chars because of this. Even that's "alt-itis", I guess. However, if you're really RPing and really trying to get something done on Amia, and have meaningful relationships with others (not just THAT kind), you aren't going to have time for fifteen chars. You just aren't. I barely have time for both Aly'dra and Liress, and trying to toss Vorel'isk and Nelene in there too gets hectic sometimes.

Do what you feel is best. But know that really devoting yourself to a char takes time, effort, and a lot of laughs and tears along the way.


Yes! This is why having a zillion alts is not so good. More rp comes with having more time spent on particulliar characters. I think most people want a taste of everything, so they make ten different builds before deciding on what they really like (if they ever do). How can you continiously interact and build a story if you always change characters?

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Herr Delta Houdini
 
PostPosted: Mon, Mar 18 2013, 22:23 PM 

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Quote:
think most people want a taste of everything, so they make ten different builds before deciding on what they really like (if they ever do).


This is almost exactly why I used to have way too many characters in my vault. But not only was I curious about other builds I've never tried before and quite enthusiastic to try them, for a long time I was getting a series of ideas for new character concepts.

It greatly diluted any impact I made on Amia with a lot of them, but I don't necessarily regret it fully, I do wish I spent more time on a single character than massively dividing it all between literally about 20 characters at one time, it did give me more RP experience though, I was on one server before Amia, quite a while before joining Amia, quite possibly I was 16 at the time and I never really had any real experience with anything as such before, but the ones on said server weren't very helpful and decided to kill the character I made because I obviously did not know what I was doing, none were willing to send a tell to explain a single thing and just killed me whenever they saw me, even if I never said/did anythign at that point, but some time after I decide to go on again, actually read the rules and learn what it was about etc and make a whole new character.. By then one actually sent me tells asking if I was new and helped me out, I didn't like the server even after spending more than just a few days there and left after not getting much of a feel for it.

Some time after that, I discovered Amia, still quite nooby and many mistakes were bound ahead, but with the different RP situations of each class/race I went with I grew in experience, naturally. Now my need to try all these different things is relatively satisfied and I slowed down a huge amount with making new characters.

Since spending a lot more time on a single character and using alts as a small temporary break from the other I've found it a lot more rewarding and actually managed to develop more IC.

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Zanthair
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 0:19 AM 

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I agree

I've had a grand total of three PCs get past level 5, Isen (who I have played since 07), Zanthair (my first, haven't played him in i think 2 years now), and Tiffany (who I made to play on the surface but things didn't really pan out). I think my server vault has more rebuilds of Isen than all other characters combined actually..

In that time I have seen people roll new characters and quit them and roll new ones again to fill the exact same role while Isen endured. He changed, he grew, he evolved.

Now, he is a drow, and theoretically with all that has happened would be a damn old one. But amia timeline is messed up, he was a young drow when first made in 07 and an old drow now and that might be an issue with how roleplay evolves, its something everyone has to deal with (and isn't really the point of this topic?)

Now, I will say this. If you have a surfacer, roll an underdarker and give it a try. The RP is very different and not for everyone, but whats the harm in giving it a try? Just remember that nothing down below is personal. To close, if you HAVE to make an alt, make it a true alt and do something you haven't done before.

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Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words


 
      
Selmak
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 24 2013, 11:53 AM 

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I don't get why they would spend time levelling up a character they don't know that they're going to keep.

There's rarely ever a character I have had which did not undergo some re-invention along the way. Especially if you're planning on making a character for a new group a radical suggestion would be for everyone to turn off their XP gain, then you can work out the bugs and inconsistencies while fighting undead pirates or something. Think of it as New Beginnings but for regular character creation. ;)


 
      
mad_otter
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 13 2013, 14:44 PM 

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Well said . . . errr . . . written. *winks* (in my 'main's' manner of speaking).

I have played on several servers one in particular for nearly five years, even DMing there, and everything the OP mentions is spot on. On that note, back to Calen. Toodles.

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Exordius
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 05 2013, 17:35 PM 

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I always try to get my character as developed and powerful as i can before doing much RP or effecting great changes on any server. Not just in rpgs but in other types as well. I still role play while doing this and i do try to stay involved with server affairs while power lvling but i dont usually do much until i have all of my ducks in a row. I just think that i can contribute more to the server and have more fun by getting my character as powerful as possible as quickly as possible. Also since i play evil characters who would naturally be hunted down by the good guys it pays for me to wait till im strong before actually doing anything major or making my presence known. If i start my villianous career at lv 1 i will be exterminated... but if i wait till lv 20, i am almost unstoppable. Granted getting that far takes a while and requires a level of patience not all players have... still i feel that is the best may to maximise my chances. I have the patience to bide my time for months or years to get my character to the point where he cannot be defeated. I still rp and quest but i dont do anything major until i am high lv. Only when i reach lv 17 or so will i make my attempt to enslave all of Amia and its people... trying that before then would be suicide.

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555444333
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 06 2013, 18:15 PM 

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I'm the complete opposite. I have never maxxed a character on Amia. NEVER.
Closest I got was 21 with Malice (yes, the big bad bitch priestess of the old UD never even got close to max level!) :lol:

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Exordius
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 07 2013, 15:57 PM 

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I do the same thing in strategy/building games like the Civ series. I spend the whole game building and advancing my empire interacting as little as possible with the outside world. Only when my empire is at its zenith do i send forth my armies to conquer by which time none of the other players can stop me. I almost always win the game using this method. Everyone thinks im not a threat as i make it a point to avoid war at any cost... until i am ready. Then when i finally do haul ass and come gunning for them they dont even have any defenses in place as they never thought that i would ever attack. The whole strategy works most nicely. :twisted:

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Sphinx
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 05 2013, 12:42 PM 

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I hate to break it to you, Exordius, but if you think any of that will be even somewhat easy to accomplish on Amia, you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Something tells me you haven't faced any real challenges in your gaming career ― yet.

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Silkelock
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 05 2013, 12:56 PM 

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Exordius wrote:
I do the same thing in strategy/building games like the Civ series. I spend the whole game building and advancing my empire interacting as little as possible with the outside world. Only when my empire is at its zenith do i send forth my armies to conquer by which time none of the other players can stop me. I almost always win the game using this method. Everyone thinks im not a threat as i make it a point to avoid war at any cost... until i am ready. Then when i finally do haul ass and come gunning for them they dont even have any defenses in place as they never thought that i would ever attack. The whole strategy works most nicely. :twisted:


Also referred to as "turteling" in the RTS scene and is by far the most unpredictable methods to win as you are easy to punish for holding up.

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mirvala-
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 05 2013, 14:11 PM 

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Failures make your character grow much more than victories. Leveling is also partly IC, a part of the learning process and growing as a character. You don't suddenly become epic, it takes work. Don't hesitate to play your character only because there are people of a higher level and different alignment than yours. As true as it is, it is also true that there will be people of the same alignment and higher level as you.

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Exordius
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 05 2013, 17:02 PM 

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Of course its not easy... it would not be a challenge if it were. And yes turtling does not always work. Turtling is a gamble, you are betting that the other players arent agressive and wont come after you until late game. If any of the other players do come after you before you are ready then you are pretty much doomed. If your empire is large you might be able to turn the tide but in most cases you are screwed well and good. This works more against the A.I. then humans though it can work against humans too.

And don't get me wrong, i have been having tons of rp during my characters leveling process. I have made many friends and enemies and have several plots in the works even though im not maxed lv yet. It has proven to be most enjoyable.

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Ryu
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 21:15 PM 



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Joined: 01 Jun 2013

I would just have to say I completely disagree with the original post. I disagree with it on pretty much every aspect of the post.

I do not have 'main'. I have characters who interest me and I enjoy playing. From time to time I play one more than another depending on what they are involved in. I have found that playing on here and elsewhere just having an interesting character (which may just be their personality) you will have a lot of fun RP to log into, people to adventure with and great your own RP. (Which is why I log onto a game to have fun, not to network up and be a badass which is famous in the game world as the greatest hero of all time.)

Now I suppose if I was logging on to just be that guy who is center of the universe then yes logging on one character and just staying on one character, moving from one group to the other so I am well known, handing out my business card to be thought of, trying to ease my way into the right circles so everyone will know of me and think on me might work out, however I am I deal with politics in the real world and I have to deal with those sort of people in the real world and log onto the game for a bit of fun with a bit of friends.

P.S: I endorse making alts for playing with certain people. I have a Drow. I play him a lot when there are Drow on. Less when there isn't, but I do have an elf for when I am topside and my Drow friends aren't on. Does that make the Drow my main? Nope I like my third alt which I rarely get to play more than both of them. (I just have not decided what to do with him next).

I am happy that playing one character has been enjoyable for a lot of people however.

Edit: If I knew this would have been my first post I would not have said anything. My reign of silence has ended. Mwahahahahahahahha!


 
      
Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 21:31 PM 

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Ryu, I think what Yoss is trying to say is if you want to be the, in your own words, badass which is famous in the game world as the greatest hero of all time, you have to focus on that character really!

Nothing wrong with having alts, just it may not be in best taste to ever complain that one person has more of a reputation than one of your alts :)

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unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder
when met"


 
      
Ryu
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 22:31 PM 



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Yaster Galer wrote:
Ryu, I think what Yoss is trying to say is if you want to be the, in your own words, badass which is famous in the game world as the greatest hero of all time, you have to focus on that character really!

Nothing wrong with having alts, just it may not be in best taste to ever complain that one person has more of a reputation than one of your alts :)


What you said sounds reasonable however the post says:

"you are always going to have a hard time transforming any single one of your characters into a lasting, interesting, well-developed characters that can be plugged into the "networking" model"

along with

"Your attention spans wander when you don't get the immediate gratification you want, as in, the player you want to play with isn't on, the characters you want to play with aren't on, so you just play a different character instead of the one you "need" to be playing"

with a healthy dose of

"However, you cannot have your cake and eat it, too."

followed by

The summary of a character in plots should basically log on the character as if it were a job and not "whenever she feels like it".

Which despite the original posters intent reads to me as if the post is saying there is only one real way to play the game or as the post states the most successful characters play such a way.

I am just going to flat out say I have had successful characters were I did not create a backstory to, played from logging in until death, created plots, was involved in plots, gained, positions, influence, and affected the game world. (Not even being the star).

So I would say I never need to log onto a certain character and the good of the game means players just playing and having fun. I personally don't have much fun when I RP with people who log on because they feel as if they are obligated to do so and really are not in the mood. I would much rather play with them later or play with an alt of a friend who would have more fun just being carefree.


 
      
inprison666
 
PostPosted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 22:56 PM 

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I myself mostly play one character. The reason for this is because I do want to develop and influence the game world in some sort of a way and the fact that I am a real busy person in real life makes it to where I only have time for one character. However I do see a few who manage to make two or even three characters who are influential but I notice they have more time to dedicate to this game. So I would say it all depends on real life situations and desires. I for one may go through weeks to maybe months without playing at all. Sometimes you may see me log in a different character for shits and giggles. The fact that I'm even posting this means I'm rather bored and the server is down coupled with my back being thrown out so I cannot handle the multitude of things I usually have to handle in a days time :D

in other words do yo thang

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Tontu
 
PostPosted: Fri, Dec 20 2013, 4:04 AM 

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There's nothing wrong with making multiple characters, just don't also then complain that your even your "main" doesn't get involved in titillating RP with sultry vixens alongside those who do stick to one character (for the most part).

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Ryu
 
PostPosted: Fri, Dec 20 2013, 16:26 PM 



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Joined: 01 Jun 2013

And to the above post myself I never complain about my RP I figure if someone excludes me from RP as I am not on all the time then I am saved from someone who would not be fun for me to RP with to begin with. I believe the logical fallacy which I addressed in my first post in relation to the original post is I (or anyone) must play only one character to have that character have depth. Or that I have to play X amount of hours for a character to be part of a plot (where X) is undefined. I would agree with less is more and enjoying the time on any one character is worth a lot more than simply being seen all the time so perhaps you become popular by always being there.


 
      
Paladin Araelin
 
PostPosted: Sat, Dec 21 2013, 7:07 AM 

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I only play one character, but sometimes it is tempting to want to make another one.

It's frustrating to have friends who have alts and be left alone when they ditch you to switch characters so they can be part of whatever event is going on, while you hang out with little hope of getting into a party or meaningful RP.

I'm finding myself increasingly isolated these days, what with friends who don't play anymore or are busy with their favorite characters.

The best solution to avoiding the temptation of creating alts is to just go to other NWN servers and make characters there when nothing's going on in Amia.

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Gaelruil Arabitylarzair
Alts:
Left Alt
Right Alt


 
      
Fire Kitten
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 11 2014, 21:43 PM 

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Claimh Solais wrote:
This topic should be Amia's official Bible.


Quote for truth ^

I wholeheartedly agree, Yoss's post goes into great detail and is by and large accurate. I'll be honest, I love Sehaikiita Esteriu Kiiriane to death, but I also have four or five other concepts swimming in my head that I really want to play. Why don't I make alts for them, despite often having 12+ hours a day to play her? Limelight, reputation, networking, putting her out there where she can (literally, in her case) shine bright against the dark of OOC/IC ignorance.

Sure, things can get occasionally tedious or boring, and right now there's TONS of new PCs I have NFC about, who plays them or who they are or anything. Times like that, get out there, don't sit on your tush or make an alt. I recently ran into a whole party I knew literally nothing about, of lowbies. Instead of ignoring them, I got some RP going, partied up despite being out of range, and helped them on their way to a dungeon before leaving them at the entrance. I had fun, put Fire Kitten out there, got Esteriu known to some degree, and aided the community all at once. This wouldn't have happened if I'd been playing that alt I keep wanting to make.

So keep it up with your mains, don't just ignore unfamiliar faces! Talk, fight, get into things, but INTERACT. This is how new stories are made, DC's are gained for RP, and all that good stuff!


TL;DR:

DO NOT SETTLE FOR MAKING A CHARACTER,
OR THAT CHEESE BUILD YOU HAVE WET DREAMS OF.


FORGE A LEGEND.


 
      
Kenneth
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 1:06 AM 

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"winged pegasus that glides on the wind with a penis the size and color of a rainbow."

Best. Line. Ever.


 
      
Fire Kitten
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 1:13 AM 

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Kenneth wrote:
"winged pegasus that glides on the wind with a penis the size and color of a rainbow."

Best. Line. Ever.


No. Just no. This is not Sinfar. If I see that IG, I will assuredly permadeath the feck out of your PC with no RP given. Fair warning!


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 1:53 AM 

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I am a proud advocate of multi-mains. So long as you don't go overboard (I know I have alt-its issues, but that tends to be when nothing is happening with my mains, I can't get involved with my mains, or I can't get my head into my mains) it's fine. I used to play the same three mains on a weekly basis for months and I was involved in so much RP it was fantastic. It all depends on what you want to get out of Amia.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming


 
      
CounterPhobia
 
PostPosted: Mon, May 12 2014, 5:19 AM 

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This is probably one of my favorite posts on this forum.

I was introduced to this game by someone who has rigorous alt-itis. He would sometimes poke fun at another of our friend calling him a DC-Whore since his character was always at the events and such. Never maliciously, we got our own DCs just not every time we logged in.

Then I was turned to this topic because I asked the "DC-Whore" how he got his character to such an important tier. I can attribute everything I've ever done on Rosie to this topic. I put her in uncomfortable situations and had IC friends shoe-horn her into being more involved whether it was "hey I have to go meet so-and-so in Dejedet to arrange an agreement of blankity blank for whatever, would you like to accompany me?"

This was my first RP game ever, I'd never RP'd before in my life, outside of PnP "my character would do this" RP. So with people I didn't know I was awkward as all hell, but I forced myself to shut up and deal with it. If these other players can RP with me so easily, why did I have to be so OOCly cautious to it?

Since then Rosie has inspired me, while I still occasionally try out different avenues with alts just to see where they go, I'll always play Rosie and always try to impose her on the poor denizens of Amia when I can just to see what kind of development it can lead her.

Granted I can't play as much as some people with RL and all that, but she'll always be my main-stay character.

So on behalf of this happy amia resident of the past few years; Thank you Yoss for this wonderfully worded, beautifully contrived dissertation.

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Rosie Adenney - The Smiling Red Hin
Dalur Illien - Hound of Justice
Tria Under - Blunt as Stone


 
      
Cury8
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jun 02 2014, 6:23 AM 



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Joined: 02 Jun 2014

Nice post!


 
      
Supreme_Pizza
 
PostPosted: Sun, Sep 13 2015, 20:18 PM 

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Meh...

I like to play to my mood. Sometimes I wanna play a goodie two shoes gung ho paladin. Sometimes a healer, sometimes an evil doer. Doesn't dilute any of them.

That's my 2 cents.


 
      
Dead
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 18 2015, 6:27 AM 

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Without any arguments that's just a personal opinion, not a claiming fact.

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GolbezLunar
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 30 2015, 0:38 AM 



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I am a big believer in no alts. I have played Nyacelil exclusive for 3 years.

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Raua
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 30 2015, 0:45 AM 

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I love alts, alts are amazing. Especially if your main PC is very "Serious"

Genny, for instance is very serious, And Cyrene has grown there due to lovely development. And while they're fun, sometimes it's nice to mix it up. Maybe I'll grab Khard, my horrible horrible manwhore, or Mischief/Mayhem to terrify the server with twinning madness. Or maybe Jareth if I feel like being capricious and silly. Honestly, it helps me separate myself from my characters because it forces me to flip into different mindsets and motivations at the drop of a hat. I love it. And not only that, but taking a break from a character or "Main" helps dramatically if you've lost the inspiration/want to play them. I'm mostly taking a break from Cy and focusing on Genny right now. I have no regrets because I know my shadowy elf muse will come out some time later, just not now.

TL;DR, Alts are a great way to have silly fun away from your other characters and can be a nice intermission~

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Mercedes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 01 2015, 16:24 PM 

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Altitis is a serious condition afflicting dozens of Amians yearly. While there may be no cure for Altitis, there are certainly treatment options to make staying healthy and active with Altitus possible. Here are the most common methods for treating this type of condition:

- Continue to make alts until you find one that sticks out as more enjoyable than others.

:'(


 
      
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