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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jun 20 2019, 20:05 PM 

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Neither dodge nor Power Attack need to be pre reqs.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jun 21 2019, 19:57 PM 

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Updated the list. Three new classes.

Defender - DwD clone with harder requirements for non dwarves.
Bow Master - AA clone with harder requirements for non elves.
Field Medicus - A class that focuses on healing and taking advantage of the heal skill

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The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 22 2019, 5:40 AM 

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Say,

Instead of making the Defender and Bowmaster classes, why not just remove the dwarf/elf requirement, but make the requirements for DwD and AA stricter for non dwarves/elves? Seems like it would be easier to implement, if you want to do it regardless.

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Jes
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 22 2019, 5:52 AM 

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I don't think that is easier, actually. Most straightforward way is how Mav has done it, and still leaves the lore for the original classes intact.

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Falling Spider
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 22 2019, 6:17 AM 

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So, what's happening with stuff like warlock?

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Pinkhaml86
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 22 2019, 14:41 PM 



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^^

ya are we still going to do bard emulation or is warlock going to be an actual selectable class in the build options?

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Nivo
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 22 2019, 15:15 PM 

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If I read this correctly, Eldritch Knight does not grant any armor proficiency? Meaning a third class or feats will be needed to be able to wear any armor? If this is so, it'll put lawful spellblades at a disadvantage as they can't take bard for both tumble and up to medium armor proficiency, which is good for most spellbladeish armors. Or I am reading this wrong and am rusty with NWN builds.

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 22 2019, 20:25 PM 

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I tested and I think the Edlricth Knight gave your marial weapons and armor wearing feats.. Plus Shield. So I would totally pull out 29 wizard / EK.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jun 25 2019, 20:54 PM 

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Nivo wrote:
If I read this correctly, Eldritch Knight does not grant any armor proficiency? Meaning a third class or feats will be needed to be able to wear any armor?


There are many pitfalls with the EK class, put forward as it is. A third class would indeed be needed, unless someone wants to manually spend their feats on two proficiencies and however many armor feats they need/want. The only builds that can avoid taking a third class would be Elven, and they'd still have the armor issue mentioned.

I sent an alternative idea to the Devs and a few fellow gish players a while ago. I'm not sure how far in the pipeline it got, but I guess it could be posted for general feedback as well.

Magiros wrote:
I tested and I think the Edlricth Knight gave your marial weapons and armor wearing feats.. Plus Shield.


If that's the case, it looks like the info needs updating.

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Raif
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jun 27 2019, 1:33 AM 

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Prereqs like power attack, dodge are limiting the end build by having to dip into dex or str against your base type and make them less appealing and effective. With the functionality of EE i would hope to see things like these removed not further implemented on new and creative pathways.

Two weapon fighter, DwD, Defender, i would love to see them have the flexibility for full focus on either STR or DEX based concepts from the get go at character creation.


 
      
Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jun 28 2019, 4:59 AM 

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Updated the list. I added in the Path of Enlightment class. It is an epic monk PRC.

I have been going back and forth bug testing and making sure everything is working. So far its going well.

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Galenson
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jun 30 2019, 10:15 AM 

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I saw some of the bonuses for path of enlightenment and was like "wow, these are powerful..."

Then I saw the epic monk requirement and it all levelled out.

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maglorine
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 01 2019, 2:25 AM 

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Question about rebuilds. If one has purposefully emulated one of these classes with other existing classes and have long standing RP around this emulation, will there be any sort of allowances made for rebuilding into the actual PRC?

In my case, I've played a Halfling War Sling Sniper for quite a while, including taking many/most of the feats that are now granted by the class itself. Thanks.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 01 2019, 4:56 AM 

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I could be mistaken, but we allow so many free rebuilds now. You could use that and since you are already emulating the PRC we wouldn't require any follow up RP.

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 04 2019, 18:05 PM 

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I really like the field medicus class as a concept, but mechanically it seems a bit underwhelming.

I want to start of by saying I think this class could match well with a paladin who wants to take on a more supportive role, or a bard instead of using Knight Commander. I am sure there are other builds as well that could make good use of this class, but it fills a very narrow niche. The field medic has many surface level similarities to the Knight Commander, except that you don't need charisma to take advantage of the field medicus.

I can't help but make that comparison between KC (Knight Commander) and FM (Field Medicus), because they are both 5 lvl classes that serve as front line support classes, and I think KC will be the better in most cases, it's bonuses are more bombastic and impact-full while FM's bonuses are more subtle. The KC also covers the main draw (in my opinion) to the FM, if I understand the Medicant aura correctly, which gives a +5 heal skill per charisma modifier and caps at +25 heal, same as the FM's +25 healing kits. The KC's aura is still better because not only is it granted to those around you, but you can use the healing aura with a +10 healing kit, giving you a total bonus of +35 to the heal skill.

So because charisma based classes (paladin, bard, cleric) can make better use of going KC, then we are left with a very narrow pool of builds that would want to go FM (want to being the operative words).

You also have FM's Combat Bandage ability to consider. First of is the up to +5 regen (if you're willing to gear for enough wisdom), it's a nice bonus but nothing to drool over. Regen is always nice to have, but in my opinion it's never necessary. Then there is the constant +3 uni, as well as the free bonus feats to saves. I don't want to underestimate the value of saves but if saves were as important as some people make them out to be, then more people would be playing monk. Third part is the temporary HP, and again it's a nice bonus to have, but again it's also one you can make do without.

I am sorry if I come of as too harsh, because I really love the idea behind this subclass! But my overall impression is that the main features of the class are a bit underwhelming, and the bonus to saves added on top feel a bit like a band-aid solution to make up for it.

I have never made a class before, and I can imagine balancing them is hard, but here are a few suggestions that to me would make the class more appealing:

1) Raise the bab per level to 1. I imagine a field medic a bit like the modern medic that are in the thick of battle with the rest of their comrades, but have more specialized training in first aid. Therefore I imagine field medics to be in the thick of battle, only stopping to fight to treat their wounded.

2) Specialize the FM's Combat Bandage ability. I don't know if this makes much sense to explain IC as the class is meant to be a mundane healer, but maybe a weaker AoE heal instead of a normal heal?

Or maybe give the class different heal abilities instead of normal healing kits? For example they could toggle between different effects when using a healing kit.

For instance one mode could be when the FM uses a healing kit the target only gains half of the heal skill roll immidiately, but the remainder of the skill x2 is healed by a regeneration effect. Or the same as previously, but the remainder of the roll is gained as temp HP.

(Admittedly I don't know if these effects would be worth the scripting time going into them, but I am imagining a widget that eats a healing kit when used to heal someone for an alternative effect rather than the normal effect of the healing kit).

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Fri, Aug 09 2019, 18:50 PM 

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May have put this in the wrong spot but here is a link to my thoughts on Cavalry, how it compares to everything else, and how it can be improved:

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91270&p=1466067#p1466067

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Sat, Aug 10 2019, 19:55 PM 

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Also, if possible I would like to see a couple special horse model options added for pally/BG builds. Say if you have 16 pally you get the option for a white horse and for 16 BG you get a nightmare option. Just flavor, not mechanically different. All sizzle and no steak.

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Kronox
 
PostPosted: Mon, Aug 12 2019, 18:16 PM 

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I, unsurprisingly, have been poring over the Path of Enlightenment pretty heavily. Most of these I enjoy. A few points for discussion:

Path of Shadows is really underwhelming for the Amia meta. Concealment and Freedom are lackluster when the main belt most Monks wear has Freedom on it, and consumables for both Freedom and even Improved Invisibility are both readily available. I enjoy the concept, but I would be saddened that a 5 level PrC be negated by the belt I'm likely wearing anyway, and somebody casting Improved Invisibility, or using a consumable item that doesn't even need UMD.

Suggestion: Instead of Freedom, give Defensive Roll. I know the purpose of Monk21 req is to cut down on some power options and other 5 level dips, but path of Shadow is the weakest of them and allowing a PRC to pick up Epic Dodge with otherwise no offensive capabilities is a fine alternative and still fits the flavor text of the class. Perhaps keep Freedom in there, maybe at 4, or Uncanny Dodge I.

Elementalist: Overall I love this one, and it is a great option for Dexterity Monks to get some decent damage. One of my favorite things about it is somewhat double edged and shared by the Iron Skin path. The lack of a 5th level capstone makes it viable to take a full 5 levels in another class and I don't have my arm twisted not to, as the other paths do. Should you go Monk/PoEElem/Fighter, you can have both 4 pre epic and still take one fighter in epic for Epic Weapon Spec which would outdamage the scaling of elementalist. Likewise you could grab 5 Shadowdancer for Epic Dodge at the cost of a little bit of damage. An extra sneak damage die, or even full MS progression. Which is fine and I love that flexibility, but some kind of capstone ability for Elementalist to dissuade that wouldn't be terrible.

Suggestion: Maybe one Elemental Bolt attack at 5th level? Or Flame Weapon SLA?

Life: I love this one. It's what I'll be taking on Kaha as it fits his aesthetic, playstyle, and character goals.

Iron Skin: Also love this. I don't even think this needs a capstone ability.

Anti-Magic: Serves its purpose excellently. Essentially 3 epic feats and a nice DR.

Pain: I haven't tested this in effect yet, and I feel it's difficult to because this path is not exactly one you should solo with. This is the epitome of "give me some support and I'll handle the rest" and I foresee this being fine, but reserve the right to change my mind once I can really see it in action.

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 13 2019, 10:03 AM 

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Kronox wrote:
Said stuff


I agree. Nothing wrong with these ideas.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 13 2019, 15:01 PM 

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I agree that path of mists is underwhelming.

I personally think Elementalist is fine. It is a ton of damage and a pretty straight trade levels for damage. If they only want to take 4 that is fine.

I can't add feats to these paths. The way it is built prevents it. It is all purely effects etc.

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Galenson
 
PostPosted: Wed, Aug 14 2019, 12:17 PM 

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Permanent 50% concealment, that can never be dispelled, is nothing to scoff at. Nor is permanent freedom that can never be dispelled.

Perhaps its not the Path of Mists that's at fault however. Improved invis is so readily available, that the server is balanced around the expectation of 50% concealment.

Maybe its improved invis that has to change? The duration, or the percentage of concealment.

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Tue, Aug 27 2019, 4:48 AM 

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I've had additional thoughts on possible cavalry improvements.

1. Add defensive stance as you get with dwarven defender with the same daily use progression. This means it's going to be limited to three uses per day.
2. Add a feat with all the benefits and drawbacks of Vehement Charge. Call it Reckless Charge or whatever you like. Limit it to having a range that would only impact the rider.
3. Buff up the saves a bit.
4. If no selectable bonus feats are added then I would add KD/IKD. This is perfectly reasonable as your average warhorse was 1200-1400lbs (545-636kg) and getting nailed by someone riding a horse is more than capable of putting you on your kiester.

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 04 2019, 5:18 AM 

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Alright, Mav. I know we've been talking about the Cavalry class and that's because I want to make one and make it awesome. Here's some additional information.

WotC, in their infinite stupidity avarice wisdom, released two different versions of a Cavalier in two different books. The first I will mention is from Sword and Fist; the second is from Complete Warrior.


Sword and Fist version here:
Quote:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Mounted weapon bonus lance +1, Ride bonus +2, tall in the saddle +1
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Deadly Charge 1/day, Mounted weapon bonus sword +1
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Burst of speed, Mounted weapon bonus lance +2, Tall in the saddle +2
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Deadly Charge 2/day, mounted weapon bonus sword +2, Ride bonus +4
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Mounted weapon bonus lance +3, tall in the saddle +3
6th +6 +5 +2 +5 Deadly Charge 3/day, full mounted attack, mounted weapon bonus sword +3
7th +7 +5 +2 +5 Mounted weapon bonus lance +4, Ride bonus +6, tall in the saddle +4
8th +8 +6 +2 +6 Deadly Charge 4/day, mounted weapon bonus sword +5
9th +9 +6 +3 +6 Mounted weapon bonus lance +5, Ride bonus +8, tall in the saddle +5
10th +10 +7 +3 +7 Deadly Charge +5


Complete Warrior version here:
Quote:
Level* Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Special mount, mounted weapon bonus (lance) +1, Ride bonus +2, courtly knowledge
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Deadly charge 1/day. mounted weapon bonus (sword) +1
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Burst of speed
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Deadly charge 2/day, Ride bonus +4
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Mounted weapon bonus (lance) +2
6th +6 +5 +2 +5 Deadly charge 3/day, full mounted attack, mounted weapon bonus (sword) +2
7th +7 +5 +2 +5 Ride bonus +6
8th +8 +6 +2 +6 Deadly charge 4/day
9th +9 +6 +3 +6 Mounted weapon bonus (lance) +3, Ride bonus +8
10th +10 +7 +3 +7 Unstoppable charge 5/day, mounted weapon bonus (sword) +3
*Special: Cavalier class levels stack with paladin levels for determining the characteristics of a paladin's mount.


So, a couple things here.

1. I don't see a need to expand the class out to more than 5 levels
2. but if you did there would be more wiggle room to add things of higher value for higher levels
3. Not sure how feasible any of this is to implement.
4. If possible, make the mounted weapon bonus work only when mounted to give a +1-5 to hit based on level and implementation like an AA bonus only working with bows
5. Those saves look a lot better than the poor fighter saves it gets now

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serbiris
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 18 2019, 13:19 PM 

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FYI, the reason they have two books with the same class (but different stats) is because those are different editions. 3rd and 3.5 had some significantly different design philosophies and it showed in the sourcebooks. Though it's true that they could coexist in a given game...

Chiming in though. I'm definitely interested in the cavalry class, but while right now the 5 levels just introduce mobile tanky goodness, making it fairly good for archers, it doesn't really reflect the offensive advantages and I'm finding the knight-type PC that I want to play feels a bit lacklustre trading his standard Fighter/WM stuff for HP and speed. I don't care too much for AB bonuses - anyone can build to hit, being more accurate doesn't feel like a feature of mounting up (though I agree it makes sense). I'd like to see something punchier, like:

1. A conditional damage bonus - like some sort of "on the charge" thing. Charging is a big feature of low-level D&D, though at high-levels like NWN it's all about multiple attacks. If something can be done to make charging in matter a little bit more, think it would be kinda cool. Similar idea:
2. An attack which uses your round's action but does triple damage (or whatev feels appropriate), on some kinda cool-down to prevent spam).
3. Some kind of AoE trample damage effect that goes off either per attack or per round (making it useful against large groups of mobs). Probably not huge damage but enough to be felt, maybe break up enemy formations.
4. AoE knockdown? I'm assuming that the horse already improves your size mod on KDs (and if not it should), but being able to keep a group of mobs down for your allies even as a full round action seems like it would fulfill a useful role.
5. Some kind of bonus for lancing (what weapon would we even use for that? Just spear? Is there a lance on its own? I think I've only seen a holdable lance-like item). Taking a bunch of lance feats feels appropriate but total gimpage in indoor combat.
6. Some sort of "terrifying charge" option, because that was the main feature of a cavalry charge in warfare - scaring the bejesus out of infantry formations. It'd be like a crappier, shorter terrifying rage I guess. Though the problem here is that a giant should be much less concerned about a slightly bigger faster dude than a human or goblin.

If not, could these be options on custom feats, if those are still a thing?

I know these sorts of bonuses only really help melee cavalry, but speed is also much more useful for ranged combat anyway. You could even possibly implement some kind of feat path thing, where archers can pick a certain set of bonuses and knights can pick something else?

Would definitely be really keen on it though if the class just had a bit more heft.

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 19 2019, 0:43 AM 

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serbiris wrote:
FYI, the reason they have two books with the same class (but different stats) is because those are different editions. 3rd and 3.5 had some significantly different design philosophies and it showed in the sourcebooks. Though it's true that they could coexist in a given game...


From my looking at them I thought they were both 3.0. Could have just been my misunderstanding.

Quote:
5. Some kind of bonus for lancing (what weapon would we even use for that? Just spear? Is there a lance on its own? I think I've only seen a holdable lance-like item).


There are lances in the game but they suck by design. They 1d0 so they will only do one point of damage plus strength bonus. There are no feats for them like weapon focus or imp crit and, because they aren't considered melee weapons, they are not subject to spells like Flame Weapon or Magic Weapon. While spears would be a substitute they preclude use of a shield. You could modify the look of a trident but those have their own issues.

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serbiris
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 19 2019, 12:29 PM 

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Yeah check the publication dates, it's a bit unclear otherwise.

Re: Lance, could make spears one-handed? I think I vaguely recall someone getting MG on a spear with no penalties, but I could be wrong. But anyway the weapon itself doesnt matter too much, there were plenty of cavalry groups in history who used hand weapons primarily. Just an idea.

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Righteous Anger
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 3:55 AM 

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I have a query regarding something posted that is a change, but isn't a class change.

As I understand it, two handed weapon users recently got a bump for the sacrifice they make in the way of increased AB and damage. Are there plans to lend a hand to archers in the same way?

As is, Archers on Amia have almost all of the same drawbacks that two handed weapon wielders do in melee, as well as:

1. Ammunition limitation (nobody runs out of greatsword or has to spend coin to upkeep it).
2. Mighty/AB vs Enhancement, or requiring Strength to get your base damage up vs not.
3. No keen allowed on bows.
4. Give a free attack to anything engaging them in melee.
5. No easy flame weapon type damage bonus.
6. No easy damage bonuses, in general.
7. The primary reason to use a ranged weapon - kiting - is borderline irrelevant outside of using an exploit due lag/turn based nature of combat of the system we use.

I'm sure I could consider more.

Are there any plans to give a love bump here?

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 4:20 AM 

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Righteous Anger wrote:
I have a query regarding something posted that is a change, but isn't a class change.

As I understand it, two handed weapon users recently got a bump for the sacrifice they make in the way of increased AB and damage. Are there plans to lend a hand to archers in the same way?

As is, Archers on Amia have almost all of the same drawbacks that two handed weapon wielders do in melee, as well as:

1. Ammunition limitation (nobody runs out of greatsword or has to spend coin to upkeep it).
2. Mighty/AB vs Enhancement, or requiring Strength to get your base damage up vs not.
3. No keen allowed on bows.
4. Give a free attack to anything engaging them in melee.
5. No easy flame weapon type damage bonus.
6. No easy damage bonuses, in general.
7. The primary reason to use a ranged weapon - kiting - is borderline irrelevant outside of using an exploit due lag/turn based nature of combat of the system we use.

I'm sure I could consider more.

Are there any plans to give a love bump here?


Nope. Arcane Archers are insane. They easily get 60+ AB with a ton of damage. They don't need a buff.

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Righteous Anger
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 5:08 AM 

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Maverick00053 wrote:
Righteous Anger wrote:
I have a query regarding something posted that is a change, but isn't a class change.

As I understand it, two handed weapon users recently got a bump for the sacrifice they make in the way of increased AB and damage. Are there plans to lend a hand to archers in the same way?

As is, Archers on Amia have almost all of the same drawbacks that two handed weapon wielders do in melee, as well as:

1. Ammunition limitation (nobody runs out of greatsword or has to spend coin to upkeep it).
2. Mighty/AB vs Enhancement, or requiring Strength to get your base damage up vs not.
3. No keen allowed on bows.
4. Give a free attack to anything engaging them in melee.
5. No easy flame weapon type damage bonus.
6. No easy damage bonuses, in general.
7. The primary reason to use a ranged weapon - kiting - is borderline irrelevant outside of using an exploit due lag/turn based nature of combat of the system we use.

I'm sure I could consider more.

Are there any plans to give a love bump here?


Nope. Arcane Archers are insane. They easily get 60+ AB with a ton of damage. They don't need a buff.


I guess I am speaking from a lack of experience, then. I was trying to calculate damage on paper for an archer and started to feel as if they were suffering. I guess they don't, after all.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 6:09 AM 

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Most ranged characters that I've seen go two routes, at least when they try to solo: SD Sneak/cornersneak, or they switch to a finesse weapon when in close quarters. Kiting is difficult in NWN mainly because of the jank that sometimes happen when you try to disengage combat. If you're finding it difficult to play say an Archer, but don't want to use either of the above methods, maybe something like Called Shot could work? That at least slows them down and softens them up before they're in your face. But yeah, continuing to use a ranged weapon in melee is like continuing to cast in melee for most characters. The penalties are intended because supposedly, you've already gotten a free round and a half to attack them before they could threaten you. I can see how that might not always be the case with the way our spawns work, though.

Speaking of ranged weapons, I'd still die to see Crossbows made viable on Amia. Either through a PrC, or through modifying the actual weapon. I think someone suggested once some sort of "sniper" function. It would take a round to enter or leave the stance, but once set up, you'd get something like shots that pierced through enemies or did extra damage.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 02 2019, 4:02 AM 

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The below arent live yet.


Amia EE Class Fixes

Path of Enlightenment had a bonus feat bug letting you pick another path at 24. - Fixed

Path of Pain keeps ticking even after you die - Fixed

Cav lost buffs when resting - Fixed, no longer can rest while mounted

Cav buffs not properly removing on dismount. - Fixed

Cav now has a damage increase 2 blud per level.

Escape artist vanish doesn't work - Fixed

Cav mount ability usage per day fixed was unlimited - Fixed, 6 a day now

All monk prc bonus damage was off - Fixed

Mist Monk - Buffed, 1 cold damage per level

Escape artist now get rogue weapons

Bugged warslinger menu - Fixed

Started on the Crossbow class.

Changed bowmaster so its requirement is martial prof. instead of called shot

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ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 02 2019, 5:33 AM 

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Quote:
Cav lost buffs when resting - Fixed, no longer can rest while mounted

Cav buffs not properly removing on dismount. - Fixed

Cav now has a damage increase 2 blud per level.

Cav mount ability usage per day fixed was unlimited - Fixed, 6 a day now


1. Hooray for the fixes!

2. Does that mean you're done with it and making no additional changes/buffs/whatever unless something is actually broken?

3. I would rather see it get some bonus feats (selectable or granted) instead of more horse uses because I just don't see placing that much stock in THP.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 02 2019, 5:54 AM 

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2. Nope. Still favorable to feed back.

3. The horse uses was suppose to be 3, its set to 6 because it takes 2 to mount and dismount the horse. So 3 actual charges of effective mounting.

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Drakos_Vek
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:08 AM 

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Love the work so far and excited for the potential crazy character builds when EE launches.

The two weapon fighter looks appealing-ish. While I know nothing of balance, would it be possible to review the prerequisite feats to make it kinder for rogues or dex-based character?

Lightning reflexes and power attack are both very... not ideal.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 03 2019, 3:16 AM 

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Drakos_Vek wrote:
Love the work so far and excited for the potential crazy character builds when EE launches.

The two weapon fighter looks appealing-ish. While I know nothing of balance, would it be possible to review the prerequisite feats to make it kinder for rogues or dex-based character?

Lightning reflexes and power attack are both very... not ideal.


The benefits of the Two Weapon Fighter are pretty massive. It was done to make it harder for dex based characters on purpose. ED Dexers and Kama Monks are both something to watch out for with this class so those were taken into consideration and the requirements made harder for them specifically.

Updated the front page with the new Arbalest class.

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Strom
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 03 2019, 10:17 AM 

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Maverick00053 wrote:


Updated the front page with the new Arbalest class.


Stop teasing me, vixen.

I think my dwarf will be undergoing some modifications for EE...

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 04 2019, 4:37 AM 

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Updated Arbalest Class. Redesigned the abilities from the ground up to be more functional and less clunky.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 05 2019, 1:17 AM 

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Pursuant to the Discord convo, these are my thoughts on tweaking the EK class:

Requirements: Switch this from a weapon proficiency to Still Spell. Somewhat because of theme, but also because as is, it's hard to build into it for anything but an Elf. As cool a nod as that might be to Bladesingers, there should be other viable builds than for Elves to be the only mages to get in "for free" essentially.

A modest STR or DEX requirement makes sense, too. It makes sure EK is taken by a PC who is "studying the martial and arcane arts to equal degree," beyond just picking up a feat. Also, a nod to the Spellsword P&P prerequisite of having "defeated a foe through force of arms alone" without magic. It's very unlikely that you've done that with a non-positive STR or DEX Modifier.

Saves: There's no real reason not to give them Will, too. Both Eldritch Knight and Spellsword get Fort/Will, and they are both the most bare bones examples of gish classes out of 3E.

Proficiencies: I think you mentioned that the list needs to be updated. Simple, martial, shield, light, medium. For a one feat buy-in, that puts it on the level of Divine Champion, which has the same proficiencies. Instead of Divine Wrath/Purge Infidel/Sacred Defense, you get spell progression. Easy enough. It doesn't need Heavy because there should still be reasons to pick Fighter or KC over EK.

Bonus Feat(s): Immediately getting the feat you "spent" back at the first level of the class is weird to me. Generally speaking classes don't give bonus feats right away, even PRCs, because you're usualy getting some proficiencies at lv 1. EK in P&P is odd in that sense, but it also doesn't give you any proficiences either(which isn't a huge deal as there isn't a 3 Class limit in P&P like NWN). Anyway. It's already likely to be a dip class for aforementioned reasons, so I'd push that back a bit. Something thematic like Combat Casting(that's what NWN2 does) at level 1, and then bonus feats later.

Like a Fighter bonus feat at 2 and Wizard at 5 might be a nice throwback to it being, in theory, a blend of those two classes.

Automatic Still Spell I might as well not be there. Beyond the fact that that you'll never get EMA with 10 EK, A.S.S. I(wow, appropriate acronym) is worthless with our prevalence of ASF armors. And it somehow becomes more than worthless if you actually invest two more Epic Feats into it. A few power slots on your custom gear is not worth two Epic Feats. As a caster you can Maximize Stat buff you way into a much better wardrobe already.

Spell Progression: If it's an on/off switch for custom classes, not much we can do there. It's a bit of a shame, as I feel there should still be some sizable difference between going say 29 Wiz/1 Whatever or 25 Wiz/5 EK when it comes to casting. Interested to hear any suggestions people could come up with.

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Strom
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 07 2019, 12:53 PM 

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Arbalest Query: 3/4 AB or Full AB?

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 07 2019, 14:05 PM 

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Strom wrote:
Arbalest Query: 3/4 AB or Full AB?

Full

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 08 2019, 12:07 PM 

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What Immolation said about the Auto Still feat. Its basically useless investment dye to AFS equipment and not to mebtion your better off with more wizard for epic spells.

I don't see a reason to invest in EK as it is, I would rather take fighter for bonus feats, proficiencies etc. Propably wizard/fighter/rogue is better build anyway. Or with EA on board I could see investing in that over EK due to gained defensive benefits.

EK just makes you weaker caster and weak melee. Maybe EK could be changed into 5 lvl investment over 10? I just dont see why I would miss out on epic spells for this class. Especially considering it is Auto Spell 1, when there are 2 and 3 too to make the spellcasting efficient in melee.

Maybe something like suggested below, granted did not consider much about the possible balance issues. Just that the class is very unappealing mechanically over fighter rogue/ea combo for a mage.
Preg: Martial weapon foc or elf.. And Still Spell metamagic.
Must be taken in epic lvls.
Level
1 Comabt Casting, Auto still spell 1
3 Auto Still spell 2,
4 Bonus feat
5 improved Combat casting, Auto still spell 3.

Edit: After thinking, I would only do still spell mage if it was for flavor. Mechanically I would rather just have some DEX, robe armor and ASF tower shield. Throw in monk/rogue/EA with one class that gets shield and you got better build. Sure if you want spellsword, throw in a real melee class to get AB.

I just dont see benefit of going for EK over other classes.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 09 2019, 0:23 AM 

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Those feats might work. But making it only selectable at epic levels means you wouldn't benefit from the AB progression of the class. Which is the point of taking a Full AB class pre-Epic for hybrid builds.

There's a reason WotC took dozens of attempts at gish classes, feats, and spells over 3 and 3.5. It's hard, man! Add to that the particular weirdness of Amia+NWN(Max # of classes, how Caster Progression works for custom classes, our prevalence of -ASF, Tenser's) and it is a really, really tricky situation.

It's kind of a daunting task and I definitely don't want to make it sound like the work so far on EK isn't very appreciated. The mere option is totally awesome to have! But it's certainly worth trying to make it as comprehensive to Amia's situation as possible. Otherwise, you get a weird thing where PCs can't actually use the class without becoming mechanically worse at what its there to represent. All the same, something is better than nothing as far as RP is concerned, yeah?

-Signed,

Amia's Resident Inactive Gish Fanboy

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 09 2019, 7:02 AM 

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By no means I intent to say the work is not appreciated. My main point is simply that I rather not see a class added then not really used. Its not only the prevalence of -ASF and Tenser's, but also the fact you don't actually need full plate for +8 armor AC, you can accomplish the same with Dex and cloth armor. Thus, once more, making still spells/automatic still spell useless.

The concept of the EK class is good, it just needs fine tuning as I see it, to make it something to consider for a build. Considering by taking fighter, you get full AB class and with 4 lvls, it gives you 3 bonus feats, take to 6 lvls and you get 4th bonus feat. Add in rogue for two levels and you get evasion and tumble.

I just don't see EK really contenting with the regular fighter/rogue mix. The spell progression surely is nice addition and if weapon spec. can be taken at lvl 1 for it, maybe it has some nice value. But going for still and automatic still spell, I just don't think there is point for further progression in the class. 10 lvls of this class just seems to eat a lot of benefits you would gain from combination of other classes in a build.

Maybe progression in the class could offer something else through progression. Another Bonus Feat, or perhaps specific feats related to melee / spell casting.

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 09 2019, 7:45 AM 

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The Eldritch knight gain caster level progression as if they were still a wizard/sorc, on top of full ab progression.

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 09 2019, 19:22 PM 

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I think Escape Artists should have a walk through walls spell like Feat. Or something that makes them able to escape jail cells or help them in some way towards that regard.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 10 2019, 2:06 AM 

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Shadowfiend wrote:
The Eldritch knight gain caster level progression as if they were still a wizard/sorc, on top of full ab progression.


The thing is, most "spellsword" builds aren't lacking for Caster Level. They dip melee classes for AB, feats, and proficiencies. There's no real instance in which taking the current EK makes you a better meleer, mage, or combination of the two. They're getting an extra 2d6 or 2d8 to cap an offensive spell which they'll rarely use due to needing Tenser's to be viable in lategame melee. Hence the dilemma. That's why Amia's situation is so specific. And so, necessitates a well curated class if we hope to make something those spellsword builds will and can use.

In other news, I'm really happy to see the Swashbuckler/One-Hander no Shield class! I believe it got posted in Discord but hasn't shown up here yet. I think it's going to be modified to not work with shifted forms(which makes sense). But I think it would be cool to see the no-Monk stipulation changed to simply not stack with Monk AC. That at least leaves it as a very viable way to RP something like a Samurai. But I also get the difficulty of trying to script that in, to work only when a one-handed weapon is out. And even if it doesn't stack with monk AC, what about a Kama Monk that takes it? I'll do some theory building eventually, I guess. But overall, it's a great job and a good option to have as an alternative to Sword-n-Board.

Impknightofireland wrote:
I think Escape Artists should have a walk through walls spell like Feat. Or something that makes them able to escape jail cells or help them in some way towards that regard.


There is technically a way to do this, but it only works when a creature is first spawned. Incorporeality. And that would be hella broken as they'd literally go through every barrier and character model in the game. Besides, that literally makes them immune to a whole line of capture RP. And even then, people would just make impervious metal blocks to house known Escape Artists in... Anyway, the point of the class was just to use pre-made feats and abilities to make a custom PRC. If we wanted to give them something that represents being able to get out of a tight squeeze, just give them a daily casting of Freedom or something. The permanent conceal and Vanish feats are already pretty juicy, so I'd say that over something like permanent immunity to Slow/Entanglement/etc.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 10 2019, 4:35 AM 

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Added in the new class for review on the front page.

Check out the Duelist. A class that specializes in using a single, one handed sword.

This class is not going to function while polymorphed.

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thetangerinetornado
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 10 2019, 12:17 PM 

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The Arbalest entry seems to have skill points but no list of class skills.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 13 2019, 5:40 AM 

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thetangerinetornado wrote:
The Arbalest entry seems to have skill points but no list of class skills.


Fixed.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 13 2019, 5:52 AM 

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EK gained shield and martial prof.

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