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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 7:06 AM 

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Hello amia. I give you your new strength build! Any strength build made is other than this is inferior. What's that? You wanna play a Barbarian? Well their capstone got nerfed to useless. You're gonna play a WM and you're gonna like it!

"But bob! Dex is good too!" said the filthy casual

Sure it is but this build will stomp it into the ground. 60 ac? More like 8 THAC0

Are there minor errors in the gear listed? Yes. Could you swap epic spellcraft focus with epic discipline? Yes. Will it be a problem in this meta? Not unless you're fighting another STR WM. You will literally mop the floor with other strength builds. Have fun no longer trying.


Quote:
RACE: HUMAN THE MASTER RACE
SUB RACE: EARTH GENASI WITH SPELLCRAFT LAUGHS AT YOUR PATHETIC BANISH ATTEMPTS
SPREAD: FIGHTER 10/WM 19/BARD 1 (EPIC SPECIALIZATION IS FOR MORTAL MEN WITH LESS THAN 52 AB)
PRE-EPIC SPREAD: FIGHTER 10/ WM 10 TOASTY GOODNESS


AC: 54 in in gear you can actually get, but your REAL ac is DAMAGE
AB: 52 with bulls
HP: 446, 506 if you CHUG

Saves:
Pre Spellcraft:
Fort: 38, Reflex: 27, Will: 25

Post Spellcraft:
Fort: 50, Reflex: 39, Will: 37

Self Buffing:
Bless/Aid for casual encounters
Truestrike for REAL MAN FIGHTS
Bulls potion for +2 STR
Endurance Potion for +4 CON
Freedom Potion (BECAUSE BELT FREEDOM IS FOR PANSIES (belt freedom is not for pansies))
Haste (EPIC DODGE IS FOR POSERS)
Flame weapon (MAKE FRIENDS WITH A SISSY ASS WIZARD)

STR 16 (18 after racial, ends at 26)
DEX 13
CON 12 (14 after racial)
WIS 8 (6 after racial)
INT 16
CHA 8 (6 after racial)

Pre-Epic Feats:
1 Strong Soul, Luck of Heroes
3 Mobility
6 Spring Attack
9 Improved Critical
12 Improved Knockdown
15 Blind Fight
18 Great Fortitude

Fighter 1 Weapon Focus
Fighter 2 Dodge
Fighter 4 Weapon Specialization
Fighter 6 Expertise
Fighter 8 Whirlwind Attack
Fighter 10 Knockdown

Epic Feats:
21 Great Strenght I
24 Epic Fortitude
27 Epic Will
30 Epic Spellcraft (PEW PEW I DODGE LASERS)

Weapon Master 13 Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Master 16 Armor Skin
Weapon Master 19 Epic Prowess

Skills:
Discipline 33
Concentration 33
Spellcraft 32
Tumble 30
UMD 12
Taunt 33
Intimidate 4 (8 cross class ranks)
Heal 21

Gear
Helmet: +5 Discipline, +2 STR, Water Breathing (Crab Helmet - Whaftown, mythal comletely)
Chest: +5 AC, +2 STR (Any +5 chest, mythal +2 STR)
Shield: +5 AC, +1 CON (Any +5 shield, mythal +1 CON )
Cloak: +4 AC, +4 Universal (Fort Cloak +4, lootbin)
Gloves: +15 Spellcraft or +15 Discipline, +2 Universal (Situational Skill Gloves - djinn gear, mythal +2 Uni)
Ring 1: +2 CON, +1 Univeral, Water Breathing (Gills, Mythal Completely)
Rind 2: Evasion, +2 STR, -2 Reflex (Totally mandatory epic loot, get ASAP)
Belt: +2 STR, +3 Universal Saves (Gauntlet or Abyss. One of the two)
Amulet: +5 AC, +1 CON (Any +5 Amulet, mythal +1 con)
Boots: +5 AC, +2 STR, (Djinn Merchant)

NOTE ON GEAR:

This tries to use as few farming epics as possible and just stick to flawless mythal shards where it can and I think it does a good job of that. Despite what people say, flawless shards are still reasonably easy to get. Also just use whatever weapon you want unless you're some pansy who uses exotic weapons. There is an epic wish list but it's superfluous and unnecessary to play this build.

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Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!


Last edited by bobofwestoregonusa on Tue, Nov 27 2018, 1:24 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 11:39 AM 

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Just so you're aware, the spellcraft bonus falls within the +20 cap on saving throws from gear and buffs. It means that you're getting only +10 of your projected +12, since you already have +10 unisaves on gear. Similarly, the reflex ring's -2 does not detract from this total, so you only get a +18 to reflex in total.

10/10/6 (Pre-Epic)
15/15/11 (Epic)
17/16/9 (Stats)
25/17/15 (Feats)
27/17/15 (With CON gear)
37/25/25 (Gear)
47/35/35 (Spellcraft)

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:07 PM 

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barbarian is still good as you can push 40's with proper feat investment on terrifying rage. you can't just go like 18 barbarian and walk around with a 70 will vs fear. now it's 28 barbarian and 40 vs fear.

edit; also 52 ab buffed on a WM? that's no good. My shifter hits 54/56 (inside/outside) self buffed.

Edited: spelling

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Last edited by Commie on Sat, May 20 2017, 20:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:26 PM 

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He means 52 ab + buffs. 52 is just with the weapon. BTW Bob? I reaalllyyy hope you're being totally tongue in cheek about the best str build, because... sorry, this is not it, lol.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:37 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

That Guy wrote:
He means 52 ab + buffs. 52 is just with the weapon. BTW Bob? I reaalllyyy hope you're being totally tongue in cheek about the best str build, because... sorry, this is not it, lol.

Jus to entertain a fun discussion, what is better then?


 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 15:40 PM 

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The standard 12/16/2 WM is better, they can get Imp Expertise and have evasion built in, as well as EWS, and... get 51 AB. That's worth the -1 AB to get all those things.

There's also the RDD builds, which... yeah, they're good.


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:05 PM 

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Joined: 02 Dec 2015

19 wm fighter bard can also hit like 58+ ab

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:06 PM 

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That Guy wrote:
He means 52 ab + buffs. 52 is just with the weapon. BTW Bob? I reaalllyyy hope you're being totally tongue in cheek about the best str build, because... sorry, this is not it, lol.


well he's got epic will, epic spellcraft, and epic fortitude, those are three feats of exceptional value.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:12 PM 

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And... anyone can take them. If a 12/16/2 WM did, they have 50 AB, still not a bad tradeoff.

An RDD that takes those can have much higher saves.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:53 PM 



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An RDD has a comparatively low AB, at 'only' around 38, or so. And lose WM goodies. (yes, they gain more con and AC, so it comes down to defense vs offense)

Also, ImpExpertise, Evasion and 4 more damage, again, for 2 ab, personally, I'd rather have the AB. 2 AB is a 10% chance on two or three attacks, possibly more, per round. So the chance of dealing more damage through that than through 4 damage is pretty high, I think. ImpExpertise means you're fishing for 1s, in many cases, and even fully buffed, you have one attack with a 25% chance to hit, and all other attacks are ones... Evasion comes down to exactly the same 'tank or dps' thing as RDD. (which actually only clears up a gear slot and 2 ref save)


 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 16:55 PM 

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Robbi, sometime when we can do it oocly, duel with Nimi. You might change your mind a little. She wouldn't duel ICly for no good reason, so... it would have to be totally ooc, not sure if that's even legal on Amia, tbh.


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 19:31 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
An RDD has a comparatively low AB, at 'only' around 38, or so. And lose WM goodies. (yes, they gain more con and AC, so it comes down to defense vs offense)

Also, ImpExpertise, Evasion and 4 more damage, again, for 2 ab, personally, I'd rather have the AB. 2 AB is a 10% chance on two or three attacks, possibly more, per round. So the chance of dealing more damage through that than through 4 damage is pretty high, I think. ImpExpertise means you're fishing for 1s, in many cases, and even fully buffed, you have one attack with a 25% chance to hit, and all other attacks are ones... Evasion comes down to exactly the same 'tank or dps' thing as RDD. (which actually only clears up a gear slot and 2 ref save)


Yeah rdd property built is only like two ab behind the 19wm build as well as immunities and flight and breath and more hp and Sr and stuff.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 20:50 PM 

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I'm mostly just memeing but Fighter/WM can get as much as or more AB and damage than any non-caster build and much higher saves short of just running a wizard or cleric and wearing the +6 amulet. It is a very solid all arounder kind of build if anyone wants to play it.


If anyone feels salty... well it's just a meme that I wrote at 4 am lol.


Also to dispel the low ab rdd thing. RDD gets lots of AB. A well built RDD can get 50ish + ab. I'm just meming.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 20:53 PM 

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Location: Eastern Washington

The1Kobra wrote:
Just so you're aware, the spellcraft bonus falls within the +20 cap on saving throws from gear and buffs. It means that you're getting only +10 of your projected +12, since you already have +10 unisaves on gear. Similarly, the reflex ring's -2 does not detract from this total, so you only get a +18 to reflex in total.

10/10/6 (Pre-Epic)
15/15/11 (Epic)
17/16/9 (Stats)
25/17/15 (Feats)
27/17/15 (With CON gear)
37/25/25 (Gear)
47/35/35 (Spellcraft)


Also yeah I realized that after posting but was to lazy to edit it so I just was like "IS SOME OF THIS WRONG? YEAH BUT WHATEVER THIS BUILD IS SPICY BOI" and you can drink a cat's and owl's when you need more will/reflex I do it all the time on similar builds.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 3:10 AM 

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Yeah, it's not bad. And, you're funny Bob.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 4:46 AM 

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I rate the RDD build better because of raw stats, better use of dev, built in 32 SR, +5 AC, and favored will saves plus spellcraft as a class skill on more levels. You also end up with more HP than the WM and a better base Fort. You come up a few points shy in AB and raw damage, but sitting 60 AC without any buffs is pretty amazing, and haste/mage armor makes tha 65 - WMs get that while Imp Expertising, and you're doing it at full AB. Which means if they imp expertise, instead of trying to mirror it, you can turn on Power Attack instead and gain even more damage. If they're going to turn it into a 20's game, you should make it so your 20's hurt as much as possible.

but 10/19/1 WM is definitely a bonafide destructor. There is a better version available though. The spice is ghost pepper level, however - far too spicy for the average Amian.

With the changes to the evasion ring, I also think the rogue versino of WM takes a jump up, combined with the Evocation bonuses mages get.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 5:32 AM 

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Rogue can be great if your build already gets spellcraft like wizard or bard but tossing bard in and getting +10 universal is a huge boost and it's worth the -2 the ring adds if you're getting +8 on top of that since you have the feats for it anyway.

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MisterLich
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 5:49 AM 

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If he is getting 2 more saves with spellcraft than he can even use, then replace Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft) with Discipline to become even awesomer.

EDIT: Fixed the post

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 12:59 PM 



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Wait, I mean, just from str, RDD has the same AB gain as WM. So they would be equal AB, apart from BAB, correct? And BAB, WM has 25, RDD has 21. So 4 AB less. Or am I seeing something wrong?


 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 13:08 PM 

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Wm has 26 Str, RDD can get 38, 34 if they take epic saves. There's the ab difference.


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 15:24 PM 

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And 5 AC, immunities, a breath, flight, bonus con, actual class features beyond 'ki strike.'

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 20:18 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

WM has 25 BAB, 4 from superior weapon focus, 3 from weapon focus and EWS, +5 weapon, 1 epic prowess, 14 from str. Is 52.

RDD has 21 BAB, 3 from the weapon focuses, 5 weapon, 1 prowess, and 18 from str. Is 38, just like I said. Of course, we could also go full str in epic weapon master, which is why I am basing off the 34 str. RDD has 4 AB less than WM. I mean, I can take four great strength on WM as well, so I can go to 54. And 50 on RDD.


 
      
Nalkanar
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:17 PM 

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No devast? :o

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:40 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
WM has 25 BAB, 4 from superior weapon focus, 3 from weapon focus and EWS, +5 weapon, 1 epic prowess, 14 from str. Is 52.

RDD has 21 BAB, 3 from the weapon focuses, 5 weapon, 1 prowess, and 18 from str. Is 38, just like I said. Of course, we could also go full str in epic weapon master, which is why I am basing off the 34 str. RDD has 4 AB less than WM. I mean, I can take four great strength on WM as well, so I can go to 54. And 50 on RDD.


Check your math there Robbi. That's 48, not 38. And, no, the WM can't get STR higher than that.... really, not without giving up major things.

Here's the breakdwn:

WM

52 (with 38 maxed out STR)AB, but no EWS
54 AC
450 or so hp

RDD

48-50 (with 46-50 maxed str) AB, with EWS
59 AC
600+ hp

Damage is different too.... that WM has 14+8 (longsword?)+10 for trueforged +8 for flame scroll +5 for weapon... sure there's other stuff you can add but for this argument, they can both do all that stuff so it's pretty moot. Total max is 45 x 3 on a crit is 135.

RDD is 20+6+8+10+8+5=57 x2 crits =114. Sure... the WM -can- do more damage, but really, most hits at this point won't be crits, so the RDD will do better for damage.

That said, my money is on the RDD in this instance.


Last edited by That Guy on Sun, May 21 2017, 21:44 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:43 PM 



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Dev, quite honstly, doesn't do mucj for you. It's basically waiting for a crit on a crit, them rolling a one on the save. You need 37 fort to be viable, so everyone has that. Itonically, the powerfulness of dev kind of makes dev weak. And the fact that so many other spells work off fort, so there is close to no point of going dev in many cases. Not that it really is a bad feat, but the one or two AB you get from that, or the saves, or whatever is, IMO, the better choice.

Also, yes. 48 AB, that was a derp on my brains fault, lol.


 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 21:46 PM 

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yeah, so 52 AB versus 59 AC (with potential for 69)

or 48 AB versus 54 AC with potential for 59.

It's pretty simple, the RDD will win most times, unless the wm gets REALLY lucky with 20's.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 22:20 PM 

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Dev on RDd is solid because you can push 46-48 sTr and have DC 10+15 +18/19 = DC 43/44 Dev, vs the standard Dc 39 WM dev. That's a really big difference - people are used to gearing for 38 fort, and that means you tag those people a good 25 to 30% of the time on a crit, and you still have WM level AB.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 23:08 PM 

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Nalkanar wrote:
No devast? :o


Dev crit is a waste of a feat if you just get a weapon with an onhit. If you're going to 1-fish you might as well not spend 4 feats on it. If you go with a build like RDD/BG then it's a different story I suppose, but even that is questionable.

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Sun, May 21 2017, 23:13 PM 

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yeah. 10/2/18 is the s+ tier build for a reason. it has no downside as a build other then forcing an alignment.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Tue, May 23 2017, 10:41 AM 

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It's pretty good, I just personally prefer the crit power of the WM my self since survivability generally isn't a huge issue on a good WM build.

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Ulir
 
PostPosted: Wed, May 31 2017, 20:21 PM 

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RDD/Bard/BG and you get +2 dev crit dc. :|

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 17:50 PM 

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Actually you can pull a DC 47 with that build if you do it correctly.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 17:55 PM 

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Joined: 13 Nov 2014

Still gotta hit 'em.


 
      
MisterLich
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 18:07 PM 

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As long as you don't also have garbage AC, then you will eventually get a crit in that fight of attrition, if we're talking pvp = and that crit will be a fight ending maneuver, potentially.

If we're talking pve, you should be able to reliably hit things at 30.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jun 01 2017, 18:10 PM 

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Yeah, I was just messing with Bob


 
      
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