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[ 7 posts ] |
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thetangerinetornado
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Posted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 1:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
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Ok builders, I’m working on a Shifter build that’s a bit different than what I’ve seen anywhere in the Fishing Forum and need some advice. I’m hoping it’s viable but I have zero experience with Shifters. Classes: Druid5/Shifter10/Bard15 (Pre-Epic - Druid5/Shifter7/Bard8)
Concept I call this concept the “The Wailing Spirit”. Undead Shape – Spectre, with extensive use of Curse Song, Darkness, and self-brewed Bardic Potions while shifted. Enough Bard to make the Curse Song sting, and enough uses to also enable use of Bard Song as a Party Buff a few times per rest period. With plenty of Hide/Move, HiPs, Improved Invisibility, Sneaks, Crippling Strike, Taunt, and On Hit Doom, it’s a creepy haunting harpy of your nightmares, singing the keening song of pain and suffering.
Race: Human
Abilities S 11 D 10 C 10 I 16>20 W 13 CH 15>18
Feats (in Order) ALERTNESS (Human) EXTEND SPELL BREW POTION BLINDFIGHT CALLED SHOT CURSE SONG LINGERING SONG IMP CRIT UNARMED ESF DISCIPLINE ARMORSKIN UNDEAD SHAPE EPIC PROWESS
Skills (294 Skill Points) ANIMAL EMPATHY 30 APPRAISE 22 PERFORM 20 DISCIPLINE 33 TAUNT 33 HIDE 33 MOVE 33 SPELLCRAFT 30 TUMBLE 30 UMD 30
Concerns Not sure if it’s going to have enough AC. Below is how it looks to me but I’m not sure if I’m even getting this right. If I’m wearing +5 Armor which merges does that increase AC? If so, which one? Spectre only merges Weapon and Armor I assume and I’m not sure what either of them do to the form since I’ve never played a shifter in my life. Also, low CL makes him subject to dispelling and he's not going to deliver much damage even with the sneak dice.
BASE 10 DEX BUFFED 12 (10 mod from 30 DEX for Spectre, plus Cat’s Potion and +2 Gear Merge) NATURAL 3 (Shifter Table) DEFLECTION 3 (Shifter Table) DODGE 2 (Shifter Table) ARMOR BONUS 2 (Shifter Table) SHIELD 6 (Shifter Table) BARD SONG 4 HASTE 4 ARMORSKIN 2 TUMBLE 6 TOTAL 54
54 AC normally would seem low to me for a non-DR meleer but offsetting that are other factors that “might” make it viable. The sidebar says some forms have “additional” AC but it’s a mystery to me if this is one of them.
Other Factors Unlimited Improved Invisibility Hide in Plain Sight Darkness spamming Undead Immunities
Other Sources of “Effective” AC Curse Song (+2 AC) Called Shot Arm (+2 AC) Dodge Feat (+1 AC) On Hit Doom (+2 AC) Crippling Strike (+1 AC)
Thoughts? Improvements? Where are the other problems I'm going to encounter?
_________________ Chaggo - Colorful Hobgoblin Monk Baegrevele Tsjos - Borne at sea, Live at sea, Die at sea.
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Kamina
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Posted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 9:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Location: Kent, England.
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All I can add is, think of your concept like 10 cleric/10 sorc/10 wizard. I mean, you can do things from each class, but you're severely hindered.
You're not investing enough in to Shifter to make your form viable in epic mobs, and you're not investing enough in Bard to have a good supporting song.
I really like the concept of a Wailing Spirit, but maybe there's a better way to go around it, especially if you are planning on leveling in epic.
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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lilmarcat
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Posted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 9:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
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You might be able to DC request a Fear howl widget to use in place of curse song for this concept
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NAUX
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Posted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 13:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Location: Norway
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I made a similar build using 5 Druid/10 Shifter/15 Barbarian, engage from stealth using Terrifying Rage, anything that wasn't a Paladin or Mind Blanked would take a 80+ save or die from the Spectre shape sneak attacks and other goodies whilst they stood in fear. Again, concept was a banshee/howler, but in the end, I felt it was too 1 trick pony and lacked in the other areas, sort of what Kamina was mentioning.
_________________ The inspiration behind the character: - https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grenadier_(3.5e_Class) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBjewxCxKLA
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thetangerinetornado
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Posted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 14:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
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lilmarcat wrote: You might be able to DC request a Fear howl widget to use in place of curse song for this concept That's an interesting thought. I didn't mention it but I did plan on brewing War Cry potions and drinking them in form for the +2 AB/Damage and the colossal sized Fear save. But a Howl widget might be cool anyhow.
_________________ Chaggo - Colorful Hobgoblin Monk Baegrevele Tsjos - Borne at sea, Live at sea, Die at sea.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 19:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Howls are extremely low DC and the Curse Song serves its own unique purpose. Still a neat "thing" though, if you want that.
It's a neat idea, for sure, but in practice I'm not sure how well it's going to work. Undead Form pretty much stands on its own as far as the buildgoes, but your buffs will be hamstrung.
54 AC isn't low, it's pretty standard tumbletank AC (55 in all +5 gear), and you'll have the free Imp Invis, HIPS, and DR to back it up.
Your PvE will be really really slow - the build is a neat idea but I can't imagine it being very fun or fast to kill things, and that's sort of my earkmarker personally when I make builds, I want to be able to do a variety of content reasonably quickly.
PvP you'll probably autowin... eventually... against anyone who can't see you, but that's a function of HIPS more than anything. Anyone who can see you can probably stare you down long enough to win since you won't get sneak attacks.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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thetangerinetornado
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Posted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
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Thanks all for the honest feedback. As I looked a bit deeper at the mapped out level progression I noticed that most of the benefits fall in place rather late in the game as the usefulness of Bard/Curse Song is pretty back loaded as you approach 15. This potentially makes leveling a chore unless I ran consistently with a strong group and let them carry me a while, which is never a sure thing.
Makes me wonder if this shape is really something that can successfully be a focal point for a build. In a melee shape taking more shifter levels just nets you more AC at a rate of about 1/level, it doesn't improve your ability scores or get you more immunities and feats. However, it does drive down the number of levels you can devote to a 3rd class, to offset what the shape might lack.
While I really like the concept it’s a bit niche for what I was planning to use it for at present. Saving it for later when I'm up for the challenge.
_________________ Chaggo - Colorful Hobgoblin Monk Baegrevele Tsjos - Borne at sea, Live at sea, Die at sea.
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