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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 
thetangerinetornado
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 1:22 AM 

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Joined: 18 Oct 2016

Ok builders, I’m working on a Shifter build that’s a bit different than what I’ve seen anywhere in the Fishing Forum and need some advice. I’m hoping it’s viable but I have zero experience with Shifters.

Classes: Druid5/Shifter10/Bard15 (Pre-Epic - Druid5/Shifter7/Bard8)

Concept

I call this concept the “The Wailing Spirit”. Undead Shape – Spectre, with extensive use of Curse Song, Darkness, and self-brewed Bardic Potions while shifted. Enough Bard to make the Curse Song sting, and enough uses to also enable use of Bard Song as a Party Buff a few times per rest period. With plenty of Hide/Move, HiPs, Improved Invisibility, Sneaks, Crippling Strike, Taunt, and On Hit Doom, it’s a creepy haunting harpy of your nightmares, singing the keening song of pain and suffering.

Race: Human

Abilities
S 11
D 10
C 10
I 16>20
W 13
CH 15>18

Feats (in Order)

ALERTNESS (Human)
EXTEND SPELL
BREW POTION
BLINDFIGHT
CALLED SHOT
CURSE SONG
LINGERING SONG
IMP CRIT UNARMED
ESF DISCIPLINE
ARMORSKIN
UNDEAD SHAPE
EPIC PROWESS

Skills (294 Skill Points)
ANIMAL EMPATHY 30
APPRAISE 22
PERFORM 20
DISCIPLINE 33
TAUNT 33
HIDE 33
MOVE 33
SPELLCRAFT 30
TUMBLE 30
UMD 30


Concerns
Not sure if it’s going to have enough AC. Below is how it looks to me but I’m not sure if I’m even getting this right. If I’m wearing +5 Armor which merges does that increase AC? If so, which one? Spectre only merges Weapon and Armor I assume and I’m not sure what either of them do to the form since I’ve never played a shifter in my life. Also, low CL makes him subject to dispelling and he's not going to deliver much damage even with the sneak dice.

BASE 10
DEX BUFFED 12 (10 mod from 30 DEX for Spectre, plus Cat’s Potion and +2 Gear Merge)
NATURAL 3 (Shifter Table)
DEFLECTION 3 (Shifter Table)
DODGE 2 (Shifter Table)
ARMOR BONUS 2 (Shifter Table)
SHIELD 6 (Shifter Table)
BARD SONG 4
HASTE 4
ARMORSKIN 2
TUMBLE 6
TOTAL 54

54 AC normally would seem low to me for a non-DR meleer but offsetting that are other factors that “might” make it viable. The sidebar says some forms have “additional” AC but it’s a mystery to me if this is one of them.

Other Factors
Unlimited Improved Invisibility
Hide in Plain Sight
Darkness spamming
Undead Immunities

Other Sources of “Effective” AC
Curse Song (+2 AC)
Called Shot Arm (+2 AC)
Dodge Feat (+1 AC)
On Hit Doom (+2 AC)
Crippling Strike (+1 AC)

Thoughts? Improvements? Where are the other problems I'm going to encounter?

_________________
Chaggo - Colorful Hobgoblin Monk
Baegrevele Tsjos - Borne at sea, Live at sea, Die at sea.


 
      
Kamina
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 9:12 AM 

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Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.

All I can add is, think of your concept like 10 cleric/10 sorc/10 wizard. I mean, you can do things from each class, but you're severely hindered.

You're not investing enough in to Shifter to make your form viable in epic mobs, and you're not investing enough in Bard to have a good supporting song.

I really like the concept of a Wailing Spirit, but maybe there's a better way to go around it, especially if you are planning on leveling in epic.

_________________
Image
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers
are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and
unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder
when met"


 
      
lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 9:52 AM 



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Joined: 27 Dec 2013

You might be able to DC request a Fear howl widget to use in place of curse song for this concept


 
      
NAUX
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 13:20 PM 

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Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Location: Norway

I made a similar build using 5 Druid/10 Shifter/15 Barbarian, engage from stealth using Terrifying Rage, anything that wasn't a Paladin or Mind Blanked would take a 80+ save or die from the Spectre shape sneak attacks and other goodies whilst they stood in fear. Again, concept was a banshee/howler, but in the end, I felt it was too 1 trick pony and lacked in the other areas, sort of what Kamina was mentioning.

_________________
Image


The inspiration behind the character:
- https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grenadier_(3.5e_Class)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBjewxCxKLA


 
      
thetangerinetornado
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 14:22 PM 

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Joined: 18 Oct 2016

lilmarcat wrote:
You might be able to DC request a Fear howl widget to use in place of curse song for this concept

That's an interesting thought. I didn't mention it but I did plan on brewing War Cry potions and drinking them in form for the +2 AB/Damage and the colossal sized Fear save. But a Howl widget might be cool anyhow.

_________________
Chaggo - Colorful Hobgoblin Monk
Baegrevele Tsjos - Borne at sea, Live at sea, Die at sea.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 17 2017, 19:10 PM 

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Howls are extremely low DC and the Curse Song serves its own unique purpose. Still a neat "thing" though, if you want that.

It's a neat idea, for sure, but in practice I'm not sure how well it's going to work. Undead Form pretty much stands on its own as far as the buildgoes, but your buffs will be hamstrung.

54 AC isn't low, it's pretty standard tumbletank AC (55 in all +5 gear), and you'll have the free Imp Invis, HIPS, and DR to back it up.

Your PvE will be really really slow - the build is a neat idea but I can't imagine it being very fun or fast to kill things, and that's sort of my earkmarker personally when I make builds, I want to be able to do a variety of content reasonably quickly.

PvP you'll probably autowin... eventually... against anyone who can't see you, but that's a function of HIPS more than anything. Anyone who can see you can probably stare you down long enough to win since you won't get sneak attacks.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
thetangerinetornado
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 18 2017, 1:37 AM 

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Joined: 18 Oct 2016

Thanks all for the honest feedback. As I looked a bit deeper at the mapped out level progression I noticed that most of the benefits fall in place rather late in the game as the usefulness of Bard/Curse Song is pretty back loaded as you approach 15. This potentially makes leveling a chore unless I ran consistently with a strong group and let them carry me a while, which is never a sure thing.

Makes me wonder if this shape is really something that can successfully be a focal point for a build. In a melee shape taking more shifter levels just nets you more AC at a rate of about 1/level, it doesn't improve your ability scores or get you more immunities and feats. However, it does drive down the number of levels you can devote to a 3rd class, to offset what the shape might lack.

While I really like the concept it’s a bit niche for what I was planning to use it for at present. Saving it for later when I'm up for the challenge.

_________________
Chaggo - Colorful Hobgoblin Monk
Baegrevele Tsjos - Borne at sea, Live at sea, Die at sea.


 
      
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