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Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
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Author:  Strom [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 13:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Accidentally deleted OP due to fat fingers and tiny key pad.

Summary: Can we use necromancy for custom healing spells and IC role played effects, as historically in D&D this was necromancy's domain.
Author:  666WaysToHell [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 14:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
I have always imagined Necromancy being more than just using negative energy, but as using spells that draw from both positive and negative energy. Using positive energy to counter the negative energy such as with Death Ward, or Undeath to Death, using positive energy to counter an undeads negative life force, thus instantly destroying them.

This is all IC conjecture, however, and would probably be better explained by more knowledgeable people.
Author:  Strom [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 14:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
666WaysToHell wrote:
I have always imagined Necromancy being more than just using negative energy, but as using spells that draw from both positive and negative energy. Using positive energy to counter the negative energy such as with Death Ward, or Undeath to Death, using positive energy to counter an undeads negative life force, thus instantly destroying them.

This is all IC conjecture, however, and would probably be better explained by more knowledgeable people.


I completely agree, and I always thought it was strange that the 'life' side of necromancy was squashed, in NwN and Amia specifically if you choose to be a necromancer you're essentially deemed evil in some fashion. I play an evil necromancer for that precise reason; with the spells available I find it difficult to justify being 'good' and getting to use all those fun spells!

I ask, as I see necromantic healing as 'costing' something. Like the life-force of the caster, or another willing or unwilling entity. The transference of that energy, rather than the... creation.. of it. It's potentially something I want to explore IC, once I have internet back, so I figured I'd ask to get some guidance.
Author:  Tarnus [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 14:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Strom wrote:
If necromancy is still deemed able to manipulate the forces of life and death; as resurrection spells still fall under it's purview.


Not sure where you are taking this from. As per 3.5, raise, resurrection and true resurrection fall under conjuration as well.
Author:  Strom [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 15:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Single tear.

Yup. Sorry. In 5th edition it changed back to necromancy and I've been playing that recently. Fml.
Author:  Commie [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 16:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
In 2e it was necromancy too
Author:  Bertnard [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 16:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Yeah, it has always been Necromancy, then for some reason it changed. Sad times.
Author:  Guardian [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 17:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Healing and any kind of manipulation with life and death IS a necromancy, by a very definition. If we could make it so in game too, rather than having it under the absurd conjuration, it would be grand.
Author:  Amarice-Elaraliel [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 18:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Strom wrote:
I know healing spells were moved to conjuration


Moved?

They are conjuration by NWNdefault:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Heal_%28spell%29

and also by PnP:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureModerateWounds.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureCriticalWounds.htm


"Healing

Certain divine conjurations heal creatures or even bring them back to life. "

We use 3 and 3.5. I also do not think it is a good idea to change it now.


However lastly, it would require a new hak anyways which is not likely to happen any time soon. If ever.
Author:  Commie [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 18:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Moved to conjuration in 3rd edition not during nwn.
Author:  Strom [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 19:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
I did mean, as Commie said, between 2nd and 3rd.

My request is not so much asking for a sweeping change, but asking if we can use necromancy for healing spells and effects in-game. Such as a variant flavour of spell that transferred life force for example.
Author:  Commie [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 19:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
i treat it ic as a successful attempt to 'vilify' necromancy by ic categorizing healing as conjuration years ago.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 22:29 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Strom wrote:
I did mean, as Commie said, between 2nd and 3rd.

My request us not so much asking for a sweeping change, but asking if we can use necromancy for healing spells and effects in-game. Such as a variant flavour of spell that transferred life force for example.


You should be able to. Greater Restoration, arguably the most powerful healing/restorative effect in the game is Necromancy in NWN.

Also, I'm glad to see so many others would like to see healing brought back to Necromancy. It's been one of my wishes for years. With all the magical changes happening, I'd hope it would be possible to explain the change through that. While actually changing the school would require a HAK I think, it would be possible to change the spell scripts to search for both Conjuration AND Necromancy focii when determining increased effects on heal spells... Oh. My heart warms at the thought of the iconoclasm that would spread IC.
Author:  Commie [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 22:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Well there you go. With greater resto being necro I guess that's that.
Author:  Strom [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 22:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Hah, well... Apparently a divisive topic. I had no idea, honestly, I was just interested in making some kind of healing spell for necromancy that took caster hitpoints and possibly multiplied the sacrificed amount by some degree it and delivered a heal to the target.

I've always thought it odd most healing was conjouration, but hey-ho!

To bring this back to the original question, and away from hard-core module changes for a moment... Would the kind of spell I describe above, theoretically be something a character could explore trying to create?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 22:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
No custom scripting, unfortunately.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Fri, Sep 16 2016, 22:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
There was, however, a custom spell someone requested back in the day IIRC. An Illmateri cleric got a spell that took their hitpoints and gave it to an ally. Maybe you could dig that up and see if it's still in the module.

Personally, I always thought a BoT for Vampiric Touch that'd make it work in reverse would be a nice(and equally blasphemous) use of "White Necromancy." Take that, Kellies.

Edit: Couldn't find the Illmateri thing. But found this. If you can get the okay from the player, and this spell is close enough to what you want, you may still be able to get what you're after. Also, there's always the spell widget for some Cure spells and requesting that what you perform is treated as Necromancy.
Author:  Strom [ Sat, Sep 17 2016, 14:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Lack of scripting is fine , honestly, it would likely take the form of an item created in character, and would involve role-playing out the effect.

I was more curious about the lore aspect in relation to Amia, and if the DM team would allow PC's to explore the 'power over life' side of necromancy beyond Greater Restoration. Or if on this server it was purely the realm of negative energy and the undead.
Author:  Amarice-Elaraliel [ Sat, Sep 17 2016, 18:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Your chara can always explore anything IC.

How it works out in the end and to what extend is then determined on the approach and RP. :D

We had a few PCs discover or invent some cool things though!
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sun, Sep 18 2016, 19:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
I'm 100% for the necromancy approach to healing, so I'm probably a bit biased here.
Author:  SamTheGiantSlayer [ Sun, Sep 18 2016, 20:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
Well to me it's always made more sense for Necromancy to have Healing, as its (to my understanding) a manipulation of positive energy, where Necromancy also deals with the manipulation of negative energy. This is also where the interesting 'spectrum' of Necromancy comes into play; like white necromancy to gray necromancy to black necromancy.

Conjuration already counts for a huge chunk of magics anyways, and you could arguably clump a lot more shit into that school if you wanted to. Necromancy deserves a little more love then to be shunted all the negative energy and let it be the 'stigma' school.

Like I say, anything can happen with PC developments! But yah ... hak fixing is a notorious issue for us unfortunately, on the OOC side of things. :(
Author:  Strom [ Sun, Sep 18 2016, 22:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Healing and the Necromancy Spell School
I'm due to get internet back this coming Friday, fate willing. I've been hankering for some Tarkuul rp and my necromancer should have had long enough to recover from almost killing himself; so I'm looking forward to playing into this.

Anyone interested, is naturally welcome to join me. My character hops between the living city and Belenoth, timezone is GMT+0.

Edit: Also, thanks all for the input. I appreciate clarification, always!
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