AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Crafting and Enchanting; A discussion about realism.

Hi!

I seek both opinions, facts and various theories as to how crafting works; Both magical crafting and mundane forging of weapons and armour.

How do you explain weapon properties like;
- Massive Critical
- Keen
- Weapon Enchantment level
- Vampiric regeneration

And how do you logically translate armour enchantments like;
- Armour bonus
- Elemental Reduction
- Resistance towards; And vulnerability towards mundane weapons (Blunt, Slashing, Piercing)
- Extra saves (Universal, Fortitude, Reflex, Will)
- Ability bonuses (STR, CON, CHA)

Let me start off with the easy ones. I can understand it would be relatively easy to explain why some types of armour are more resistant towards piercing damage. Let us take chainmail for instance - The type of armour is designed to be slashing resistant and mildly difficult to pierce, yet offer very little to no protection from a hammer. You still get the same crush injury from having a massive hammer strike you at the chest but you are probably safeguarded from a slashing attempt from a sword across your chest by the metal rings. So this is rather easy to explain in game.
You see a chainmail with slashing resistance and can probably imagine it is hard to cut through. Same goes with heavy armor like Platemail. It would be relatively difficult to cut off pieces of solid metal, and perhaps rather difficult to dent with a sledgehammer, but at the same time we all know a well aimed crossbow bolt could most likely penetrate it thus 5/- slashing or 5/- blunt make some sense.

But what about armour class? How do you theorise a +5 AC fullplate is better then it's +4 Cousin? And why?
How do you 'Explain' keen and 'Massive critical' ? Is keen a very sharp blade? But isn't "Sharpness" defined by the enchantment bonus?

Elemental bonuses would, too, be genuinely easy to theorise about. Using dragon scales in the making of a suit of armour obviously provides resistance or in some cases even immunity towards certain elements and likewise elemental vulnerabilities. A platemail made out of red dragonscales is resistant towards fire but somewhat vulnerable towards cold and chilling air.

But how do you explain that some helmets or armours provide extra constitution? Or make you even stronger? Have some wizard simply cast a maximized Rhino's stamina and combined it with a permanency spell? Can you make armours that provide ability bonuses without needing to be a caster?

Credit goes to nefos work which inspired me to seek some answers. He tries to put realism into the game with his IC work.

Enchantment = Magic ...

So, it's all Magic

It's rather hard to mix realism and fantasy when you have people changing the world with a snap of their fingers...

Now that was a dull answer. No offence

Keen at the least is easiest to explain:

Magically enchanting a blade to be a supernaturally sharp (note: Keen should only be working on edged weapons) blade.

Vampiric Regeneration: Using the spell 'Vampiric Touch' to create a conduit of limited negative energy specifically shaped to pull a touch of the energy that would be given off from the injuries inflicted by the weapon and transferring into the user of the weapon.

Vampiric Regenerastion is a rather nasty spell - would that make Vampiric Regeneration a forbidden enchantment for paladins and holy warriors?

Quoth the SRD:

Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

----

In the Spell's Descriptors it rather lacks one of two Key words, Evil and Vile.

Thus, it is not aligned to Evil. It may in it's base nature be 'Nasty' but there isn't anything in the description to suggest it to be unholy.

It's fluff and the individual should be able to determine how his or her items work.

Additional boni can be mundane or magical. A masterwork sword for instance has a better attack bonus. This likely means it is perfectly balanced and hence permits the wielder to conduct precise attacks. A breastplate could be flouted, hence have an additional protection against bludgeoning damage by spreading out the force over a greater area.

Basically you can not be specific what exactly represents what. It also depends on the campaign and the dm. Many boni can be mundane or magical, while at a certain power I always assume it is magical. For instance if a cloak grants 5/- damage reduction to cold it could be just a warm thick pelt cloak. If it has 25/- damage reduction to cold I would definetly go with a magical enchantment.

D&D mixes its stuff as well. Full plate does not permit you to dodge attacks better, but absorbs the damage of them. So armor class can be the parry of your character, the dodge of the attack, the reflection or absorption of the attack. It could also be a magical enchantment that hardens the armor and prevents your enemy from driving a spear in your gut that would normally have penetrated your armor.

Ability enchantments seem mainly magical to me. Charisma may be the exception, but I can not find a mundane explanation for a strength bonus. As to how the item is enchanted it is possible to create various stories that would make sense.

How i see it:

Weapons
- Massive Critical
Has to do with the sharpness and thickness of the blade
- Keen
Depends of the quality of the work during polishing of the blade (hammers are another story sadly)
- Weapon Enchantment level
Depends of the quality of the work done during the process of the ingot and the pureness of the metal. Hard metals and unified alloys give more a more keen edge thus adding to damage. also better work gives a more ballanced weapon adding to the attack bonus.
- Vampiric regeneration
Magical prop that sucks the foes life force and passing it to the welder.

Armors
Generally I think of HP as how many hits someone can sustain. Armors deflect some of the damage taken by a hit. I dont think that AC prevents someone of being hit. A 30AC against 25 attack roll could be hit (naturally) but the armor would deflect the hit. So...

- Armour bonus
Better stronger material and crafting.
- Elemental Reduction
Magical property or something else. Armors where never been worn alone. Under any armor, depending its type, there was the suitable clothing. Noone would run around with leather or the metal touching his skin. Some of the clothing could give such resistances.
- Resistance towards; And vulnerability towards mundane weapons (Blunt, Slashing, Piercing)
Depends of the craft. Large areas of one material on the armor make it more flexible thus more resistant to bludgeoning damage. Smaller pieces like scales or rings are better against piercing.
- Extra saves (Universal, Fortitude, Reflex, Will)
Magical property
- Ability bonuses (STR, CON, CHA)
Magical property (except for CHA that someone could say "you look very handsome in that armor"

)

- Massive Critical:
Depending on the type of massive critical and the type of weapon. Extra slashing damage on a maul you explain by saying that your weapon has sharp edges, or small spikes in a case of piercing damage. Just imagine a said weapon with some addition that could be implemented to give it slashing/piecing/bludgeoning damage.

- Keen
Balanced. Sharpened.

- Weapon Enchantment level
It's magic. It's usually explained in tiers. Higher tier = more precision.

- Vampiric regeneration
Again magic. You strike, you get healed. Draining.

- Armor bonus:
Hardness. Better materials. Deflecting edges. Better craftwork. Magic.

- Elemental Reduction:
Made either of materials that are resistant to a certain type of elemental energy or again.. magic.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Vampiric Regenerastion is a rather nasty spell - would that make Vampiric Regeneration a forbidden enchantment for paladins and holy warriors?

So's Wail of the banshee, Black blade of disaster, Horrid wilting etc.

How do you explain weapon properties like;
- Massive Critical - The weapon, on a solid (critical) hit, magically seeks out vital points inside the body to damage. Think lik a rapier bending itself to stab a lung, for example
- Keen - magically created near-molecular-edge blade
- Weapon Enchantment level - extra force or an invisible sheathe of arcane energy about the weapon
- Vampiric regeneration - Same as Grymia

And how do you logically translate armour enchantments like;
- Armour bonus - Magically tightened and hardened material, or an energy shield in the case of deflection
- Elemental Reduction - Reflects or deflects energy of the appropriate type
- Resistance towards; And vulnerability towards mundane weapons (Blunt, Slashing, Piercing) - magic changes the molecular structure of the material so that it's stronger against one type of force, but that renders it innately weaker to others
- Extra saves (Universal, Fortitude, Reflex, Will) - This can be done a variety of ways... boots that automatically try to tug the wearer out of danger, preternatural senses, arcane fields that strengthen the bones and muscles, etc.
- Ability bonuses (STR, CON, CHA) - STR would simply bulk up your muscles somewhat. Or strengthen their structure so that you can pull harder using them. Or perhaps increase their density, as it is in other primates (chimps have skinny arms, but they can tear your head off and use it as a kickball). DEX I'd see as increasing your raction time and hand-eye coordination. CON magically reinforces your innards. INT I could see as magically imparted knowledge, the same with WIS. CHA would be increased forcefullness in your dealing with others, or perhaps an arcane perception of how their own minds work, for easier manipulation.

Magicaly enhanced luck, guided by divine power and plain old its magic so its just plain better are all viable reasoning along with a dozen other inexplicable mystifying supernatural reasons for the mechanics behind magical items. When it comes to magic the laws of physics are just a guideline.

Crafting and Enchanting; A discussion about realism.

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