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Falhadanye
 
PostPosted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 18:29 PM 

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To start this off, I am very happy to see Lore Questions having its own thread, a very ingenious idea by the DMs.

That being said. Tieflings. You gotta love them, you gotta hate them.

I am interested in tips on roleplay based on the lore of Tieflings. This may include: How they interact with each other, both devil- and demon-blooded, how they interact with Aasimars and other celestial planar bloods. How do they sense one another? Is it by Lore Checks alone, coupled perhaps with Spot Checks to see their unusual features? Some roleplay I Have seen equates two Tieflings of devil and demon blood "sniffing each other out"; is this a viable option or is it based on what the two players come in agreement to? The Detect Alignment spell could be an answer, but not all Tieflings are evil, many are a Neutral step away from their demonic ancestor's alignment.

All tidbits are welcome. From both Devil and Demon based Tieflings.

I welcome all answers, player and DM; and I understand that while some views may disagree, they are equally valid to look at. And of course. . . The DMs have last word on any given subject.

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 18:57 PM 

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http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Tiefling This is a pretty good source to those not used to Tieflings. As to their reactions to one another, it varies. Just like no person is alike the same can be said for tieflings. Some tieflings shy away from their heritage trying not to allow it to control their lives while others might embrace it or have its influence have a stronger hold on them. Devil tieflings would be more prone to commit Lawful or Evil acts, Demons Chaotic or Evil, then Neutral or Evil for Yugoloths and so on. From what I gather, no they cannot simply sniff out a Demonic taint from a tiefling, a full blown devil can I'm sure. The devil tiefling may find out in other ways as the tiefling might show certain physical traits depending on the fiend in their heritage. There are an unlimited number of demon types while a limited number of devil types if you're not including unique devils. So you could use that as a reasoning for lore checks on how one might determine their bloodline, or a more solid solution of course, divination magic :P.

Some tieflings can give off an uncomfortable feeling which I think would have a bigger impact on a creature such as an Aasimar, but again it all depends on the character. Some tieflings may despise such a creature for what they represent, while the others admire them because they are put through the same kind of life as they are to a point. Descendants of evil or good, both are viewed as different in the eyes of others and need to work that much harder to be accepted.

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Maias227
 
PostPosted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 19:12 PM 

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Races of Faerûn has a pretty good entry too, the only major difference being that Amia allows tieflings from devil stock as opposed to the standard tieflings only coming from demon stock.

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Silent2001
 
PostPosted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 19:31 PM 

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Sometimes tiefling blood is so diluted that attributing them to either race of fiends is impossible unless you're a demonologist, and even then not always. Of course knowing they are tieflings of some sort should always be possible if you play one. They have at least one characteristic that reveals their true nature. As for tanar'lings (demonic tieflings) and zu'lings (devilish tieflings) shouldn't automatically hate one another nor should they automatically be aware of their heritage, the blood is so diluted that the rage that drives the demons and devils to slaughter wouldn't readily manifest in a tiefer (so no random pvping Gorthod all you mean zu'lings!)

In my experience - the majority of tieflings are lone wolves, like surface drow, because they are rejected by society. There is something wrong with tieflings on a fundamental level that makes all races uneasy around them, maybe even other tieflings, but espcially aasimar. This makes it more difficult for tieflings, as opposed to genasi, to interact with others because of this sense of wrongness about them. So not only do they look different, they look different in the worst possible way, they have tails, horns, weird eyes, terrible skin, etc, etc.

And like Draco said tieflings should be predisposed, allignment wise, in line with their heritage. So they are usually evil, with the descriptor of their heritage. So zu'lings are usually lawful evil, tanar'lings are usually chaotic evil and loth'lings (Yugoloth descended tieflings) are usually neutral evil. Of course there are exceptions, and some tieflings shrug off the pyschological influence of their heritage entirely and some merely have the phsyical traits. Again, they are like drow in this instance.

To sum up: Tieflings can't detect the heritage of other tieflings by sniffing, nor can any other person without the appropriate lore skill, and specialty in demonology (which includes zu'lings, loth'lings, don't worry.) The thing that usually gives away a tieflings heritage is their demeanor, so a chaotic tiefling might hint at demonic blood but not always. Detect Alignment does exactly what it says on the tin. It detects alignment, not bloodtype.

Full blooded outsiders might be able to detect the specific taint of a tiefling, but that is left in the purview of the DMs, so PC summons cannot do this I am afraid.

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ZoltanTheRed
 
PostPosted: Wed, Feb 15 2012, 22:42 PM 

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Silent summed it up well.


 
      
Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Thu, Feb 16 2012, 21:22 PM 

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Silent2001 wrote:
So zu'lings are usually lawful evil, tanar'lings are usually chaotic evil and loth'lings (Yugoloth descended tieflings) are usually neutral evil.


That's actually pretty cool to me, I didn't know there was a more technical term to them. I normally just called them devilkin, demonkin, and daemonkin :P

Silent2001 wrote:
And like Draco said tieflings should be predisposed, allignment wise, in line with their heritage. So they are usually evil, with the descriptor of their heritage. . .
. . . Of course there are exceptions, and some tieflings shrug off the pyschological influence of their heritage entirely and some merely have the phsyical traits.


I never meant they were predisposed to that specific alignment, just that they have a strong influence that pushes them in that direction. They can end up being different alignments of course on a case by case basis, though not usually to the extreme. Like a zu'ling should never end up in the chaotic side of things or a tanar'ling should never end up on the lawful side, but neutral is a good middle ground. That said good aligned tieflings are possible too, but those are 'very' rare, much like how an aasimar can be evil but again 'very' rare. I know people like to be unique on Amia but I'd strongly suggest you not push those boundaries and stay in the neutral grounds if you don't want your tiefling to be evil.

Also tieflings are not limited to just those three fiends, a person with rakshasa descendants is also a tiefling. I don't know how many more fiendish offspring would fall into the tiefling category though, or what more technical terms you might have for those. . .cat'lings? :P

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Feb 16 2012, 21:32 PM 

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Rakshasan tieflings are not an excuse to play catgirls, btw...

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Gunz
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 2:04 AM 



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I support Tormaks words here. Stay strong, Tormak. You'll get through your addiction. :D

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 2:13 AM 

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Oi DMs, this forum is for Lore discussion only :P
*Locked*

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Halecta
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 6:41 AM 

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Tiefling = Any evil outsider ancestry


So it could be any evil type outsider that could have children with a non-outsider, demons, devils, and yugoloths are just the most common.


 
      
Maias227
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 7:18 AM 

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It couldn't be direct bloodline, tieflings represent much smaller proportions of outsider blood. What you describe would require a request for a half-outsider.

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Estara
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 10:27 AM 



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I think Halecta meant that as long as the outsider can have children with a non-outsider, it is a viable ancestor of a tiefling. As outsider/non-outsider copulating is necessary for tiefage.


 
      
Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 15:47 PM 

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With the exception of outsiders from the inner planes anyways, then it's a genasi :mrgreen:

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serbiris
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 17 2012, 16:22 PM 

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Yeah there's a point. Efreeti are typically evil but they produce fire genasi, not tiefers.

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Falhadanye
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 18 2012, 20:04 PM 

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Also, another question on names. I've heard of Cambions. THere are several dfferent descriptions for this term, depending on the version. Some call them devil blooded tieflings, others demon bloods, or even a child of a half fiend and a tiefling. So.. any names that tieflings have, alu'fiends, zu'lings, cambions, etc.. would be helpful.

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 18 2012, 20:39 PM 

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Cambions are half-bloods, normally. Though opinions are divided if only demon-halfbloods are called cambions or generally all half-fiends. I have yet to find a source which clearifies this 100%. However all reliable sources I found so far are at least agreeing on the half-blood and no tiefling part.

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Zedrik
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 18 2012, 21:28 PM 

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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Cambions are half-bloods, normally. Though opinions are divided if only demon-halfbloods are called cambions or generally all half-fiends. I have yet to find a source which clearifies this 100%. However all reliable sources I found so far are at least agreeing on the half-blood and no tiefling part.

It depends on how technical one wants to be. Cambion is a half-breed demonic male, just like alu-fiend is a half-breed succubic female. These are specific creatures, but like the word "hin" is now often used to refer to any halflings, whether they are actually hin or not, cambion can be used to refer to any male half-fiend and alu-fiend has been used to refer to any female half-breed. And in many cases it's gone further to include more diluted blood or even those descended from other fiends.

(Note this is based primarily on AD&D2E, as I'm not even sure I've seen cambions in 3.X.)

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 18 2012, 21:31 PM 

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Ya I can't find anything definitive on them either back when I looked into them. On one hand they say that Cambions are male half-fiends and Alu'fiends are female half-fiends, then the other it says Cambions are half-demons and Alu'fiends are half Succubus. Some clarification is definitely needed.

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Falhadanye
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 18 2012, 21:38 PM 

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Quote:
Cambions are considered to be the result of breeding a devil[1] with mortal females. The offspring of a mortal male and a succubus is a different creature known as an alu-fiend.[2] In general, a cambion is described as any humanoid creature that is half-fiend.[3]

Scholars have differed over the years as to the exact meaning of the term "cambion". Past scholars used the term to denote "the union of a planetouched woman (usually a tiefling) and a tanar'ri" [4]. They also further delineated this terminology to create "noble cambions": Marquis and Baron cambions are similarly sired by a demon lord father and a female humanoid half-fiend.

In more recent times (since the Spellplague), the terminology and usage of this term has shifted to mean the union of a mortal female and a devil.[1]


Quote:
In 1st and 2nd edition of Dungeons & Dragons, and by extension the Forgotten Realms, cambion was a term that meant the offspring of a demon (other than a succubus) and a human. In 3rd edition, it was a synonym for any half-fiend (according to the Monster Manual 3rd edition). The Expedition to the Demonweb Pits adventure threw in a third definition, claiming that a cambion was the child of a demon and a tiefling. Now with the 4th edition we are given a fourth meaning yet: the child of a human and a devil.


These are two quotes from Forgotten Realms Wiki. Not sure what the Amian Cannon is, is why I'm asking. I know the 4e is not considered, but I do want a more familiarity with the terminology, not just with 'cambion' but with all of them.

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Zedrik
 
PostPosted: Sun, Feb 19 2012, 3:19 AM 

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Falhadanye wrote:
These are two quotes from Forgotten Realms Wiki. Not sure what the Amian Cannon is, is why I'm asking. I know the 4e is not considered, but I do want a more familiarity with the terminology, not just with 'cambion' but with all of them.

4e took established lore, threw it in a blender, and randomly selected the resulting mess. <.<

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Falhadanye
 
PostPosted: Sun, Feb 19 2012, 8:43 AM 

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I know that. But the site was stating other versions' definitions as well. Which is why I mentioned it at all.

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Zedrik
 
PostPosted: Sun, Feb 19 2012, 15:04 PM 

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According to my great (ha!) skill in search fu, Cambions in 3.5 are detailed in the Expedition to the Demonweb Pits adventures module.

"In the 3rd Edition, cambions are the offspring of a tanar'ri father and a planetouched mother, often a tiefling."

Which may very well be a scholar term that has devolved into the lay person term meaning any (male?) half-fiend. Or part-fiend.

Much like the word hin has spread to pretty much mean any halfling even though it has an older meaning referring to a distinct group.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Feb 19 2012, 22:16 PM 

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On Amia the term has generally been a catch all for "Half-Fiend", yes.

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Pony
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 06 2012, 12:51 PM 



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What I find more interesting are not as much the nature of tieflings on a physical level, but on a psychological. A tiefling with a baatezu lineage may perceive the world more like a fiend would.

Quote:
Senses

Almost all devils can see in darkness, even that created by a greater darkness spell. The acuity of their other senses varies by form.

Regardless of the acuity of a devils senses, all its perceptions are tinged by its natural affinity for destruction and despair. The most beautiful flower appears slightly wilted at the edges. An innocent child looks like a bag of flesh loosely covering soft and unformed bones. While a bottle of perfume seems more pleasant than a reeking cesspit, all scents seem to some degree foul.

- Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of Hell (Page 18)


That is one aspect that for me explains why devil tieflings can tend towards the lawful evil spectrum due to their nature. All your life your bloodline could have tainted the way you perceive things. Beautiful elven songs could sound off-note, ill-tuned, not tranquil and calming but disturbing and somehow twisted. Killing a child is far easier if it appears like a filthy bag of flesh and ill-formed bone, and falling in love far harder if the scent of her hair is almost repulsive. The beauty and goodness of the world is far less appealing when you are unable to see it or feel it, especially if you believe how you see it is actually how the world is.

Then there are other aspects of the nature that may influence the character. Devils are very unlikely to see their own fault in failures, but fault in others. They will do everything to have another blamed for their own shortcomings, not only because it is beneficial for them, but because they will often actually believe it is the fault of the other. They are very skilled in self-deception so that their extremely narcissistic view of themselves is not undermined. They are right, others are wrong. That could start in childhood, when you do something wrong and to avoid detection blame it on the other orphan in the home, and you feel no guilt when that other boy is beaten for what you did. Perhaps because the other boy said he would tell, and hence it is his own fault for trying to rat you out.

Then I always like to look at the seven deadly sins for inspiration. In times of famine you may bully others to stuff your belly not only out of hunger, but because you just love eating (Gluttony). You lust after the fiancee of your best friend, and then have him framed for him to be shipped off for life so you can have her like in the Count of Monte Christo (Envy and Lust). All your life you never really worked, but lied to avoid work (Sloth). Etc, etc.

Just look at the fiend who sired the line, at the way they behave and work from there. With that I also mean not only if it is yugoloth, rakasha, tanar'ri or baatezu, but for instance what kind of baatezu. The offspring of a bearded devil will behave differently from an imp or a kyton, as the type of devil forms the personality. (Hence promotions and demotions alter the mind of the devil extremely). The tiefling will not perceive all things as a fullblood will, but he will have a part of their nature - and hence if he works towards the good will likely have inner struggles. How strong this is likely depends on how much of the planar blood is left in the line, if it is more or less dormant or active, etc.

You can also look into information on difficult/damaged personality types. I read a book by Francois Lelord (Comment gérer les personnalités difficiles) on the subject, and it helped me a lot to understand where Alicera is coming from when I roleplay her. The layer on which she makes decisions (something I can sadly rarely display in rp, as she only allows glimpses in seldom cases - seeing that such is counter productive for her goals) is that of an extremely damaged, vile and repulsive person. While she may not seem so extreme on the surface, rping her is sometimes scary - and it is far more fun to actually explore such a mind more, then simply trying to make someone appear evil by doing "bad things".


 
      
Pony
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 06 2012, 13:28 PM 



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I will need to find the source for this, but I am certain I remember that tieflings are not only created through bloodline, but can also be through the exposure to the planes during pregnancy.


Last edited by Pony on Tue, Mar 06 2012, 13:33 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Lord-Hadeis
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 06 2012, 13:32 PM 

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When I did my research, back when I started in Amia, I got three possible ways. Breeding, Magical experimentation, unlucky contact with the planes. And I came out on anything above 15% demonic/devil blood to use that term would be extremely unlikely and so would be a life span far exceding that of the base race.

Don't ask me for links, that was years ago.


 
      
Ravenovf
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 06 2012, 16:32 PM 

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Ive played alot of tieflings over the years mostly in pnp (my first AD&D tiefling was a CG Tiefling Fighter/Wizard named Ravenovf Hellbourne, who was a member of the Fated), but race wise they are right up there with drow as my favorite go against the grain of your nature dark hero archetype races. Been that way ever since I got my first Planescape Monsterous Compendium and fell in love with Tony DiTerlizzi's art work (his rendition of the cat lord is also to die for). While it is a book for an older edition Ive found it's description of tieflings was quite good, perhaps more so for tieflings born in the great ring but I digress.

http://dungeonsmaster.com/wp-content/up ... efling.jpg

(Cant find the text anywhere, but Ive nothing do so I will post a few of my favorite paragraphs from the book slightly paraphrased from the setting that gave birth to the tiefling race. All in all Ive always enjoyed this description of tieflings best.)

Tieflings are the offspring of the planes, as varied as the places they call home. Superficially human, their appearance always betrays them: some sport small horns, others have pointed ears,scales, cloven hooves, or just a wicked gleam in their eye that never leaves. What they have in common is a quick temper and a chip on their shoulder. They are often confused with Alu-fiends, Cambions, Erinyis, Incubi and succubi (witch they will forgive), but never call a tiefling a bastard or a half-breed. They'll take it real personal-like. Plane-Touched is the word or "Sir" or "Lady".

Tieflings prefer dark clothing: a shade of maroon like clotted blood, dark forest green, blue as dark as lapis, and a midnight black that absorbs all light are often favorite colours. Their clothing is almost always a tight-fitting set of leggings, a vest and a tunic, combined with a loose flowing cape or long jacket with tails. They don't seem to walk so much as slither and a Basher never wants to see one in a rage the howls are louder then Pandemonium and more dangerous then the tenth pit.

Habitat/Society
Tieflings have no true society of their own; they are the outcasts of the planes, cast out of the lower planes, not trusted in the Upper Planes. Though many of them gather in Sigil, just as many try to carve out a home in their own planes. They don't trust others (what orphan does?) but their self-confidence is nothing short of astounding: a tiefling is said to have once swam the river styx because no one told him that he couldn't, and another climbed to the fifth heaven of Mount Celestia before Archons noticed her lurking in the shadows and cast her into the abyss.

Teiflings have a reputation as great but deceitful lovers. Their fickleness in affairs of the heart is legendary, and seems closely tied to their reputation as tricksters, liars and frauds. Tiefling gamblers rarely find planers to fleece, they rely on the clueless and young to line their pockets.

Though tieflings are usually loners, a charismatic and powerful tiefling sometimes gains a following of like minded, young tieflings who hope to ride on his coattails. These packs are sometimes called "schools" though they teach hard lessons. Each School exists to glorify its founder and protect its members-it does little else. Many Schools of tieflings also operate as informal thieves guilds and or mage societies, but almost all of them collapse when the founder dies but some are remembered.

Ecology
Tieflings are often persecuted by humans and others "if there's blame find a tiefling," "Don't ever make a bet with a tiefling" and "If a tiefling didn't do it, they were just pressed for time" are common sayings in Sigil. Naturally this makes tieflings a little defensive around others, but it doesn't make them band together, as it might for other oppressed races.

Tieflings prefer to eat only meat, blood, bone and marrow, preferably raw. They enjoy blubber, gristle, roasted insects and other foods witch many people would find disturbing. Their favorite drink is a strange concoction of broth, oil, sulpher and fire water, though they will hoist an ale with a bubber in Sigil if nothing else is available. When meat is unavailable they can survive for short periods on ashes and coal.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Mar 06 2012, 21:38 PM 

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There are FR descriptions of Tieflings, and these supercede the Planescape ones.

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Silent2001
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 07 2012, 14:21 PM 

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The ashes and coal bit is particularly silly.

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Ravenovf
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 07 2012, 17:42 PM 

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Yeah to be fair it was 2nd edition it was a silly system sometimes, I can see it as a teifling trait needing to augment their diet with it maybe, but being able to live on its a bit eye rolling from DM and Player perspective. Still goes to show how much the race has evolved since their birth into the Planescape Setting so long ago and how much of it still holds true even through all the changes D&D has undergone since then.

Their stats were even more Silly back in 2nd, +1 Cha, +1 Int -1 str, -1 con, +2 saves vs pretty much all elemental attacks, half damage from cold.

Sometimes I can't believe how religiously I played AD&D without realizing the system was kinda messed up.


 
      
Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 07 2014, 6:42 AM 

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Giving this a bump, good thread for new tiefling players

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Strom
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 16:39 PM 

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Some things to emphasize about tieflings, which I try to keep in mind as I play mine:-

# They are not half-fiends, though they're often in the terrible position of the world treating them like one.
A half-fiend is a terrible creature, twisted from mortal flesh with the blood of a fiend, they're almost entirely evil, by simple nature. Even those that try to rage against their heritage will never be truly 'good', they see the world through a grey lense of rage and despair, their minds war against it's own halves leading them to often be unstable, the joy of others fills them with envy. Because, such warmth is ever denied to themselves.

# A tiefling on the other hand is often many generations removed from this sad fate, though the stain of a fiend in the blood does not die easily. Those with fiendish grandparents will often display the most obvious traits, and tend to be the most tormented by their blood. But, they're human. They precieve themselves as human, yet when they look in a mirror see a monster. Red eyes, horns, fangs. Imagine looking at the word around you, and connecting with those people. Yet that is never -ever- truly reciprocated. A wise man would not necessarily fear a tiefling, but always pity them.

# Can tieflings be good? Yes, I think so, but would tend toward the chaotic. Not because they can't obey laws, but often because laws have been used as a lash against them in the past. Show kindness to a tiefling, and you may find the response suspicious - because they're just not used to it.
D&D has a horrible alignment system, because it doesn't account for perception, things are good, or evil. Period. Which isn't the best for a creature as grey as a tiefling. Don't think in terms of good and evil. Law and chaos. Let them be guidelines, not absolutes and tieflings become a lot more interesting.

# Would a tiefling be good and generous to her friends? I think so, because they'd actually value a friend. Would that friend need to be exceptionally understanding? Absolutely, because I believe that instead of seeing the world through that horrid lense like a half-fiend. Rather a tiefling would find certain emotions difficult to contain. Envy, greed, cruelty. They may be ashamed of this, as I said. They're human, they'd reflect on their actions like anyone else. So that friend would need to be perhaps wise... or have walked a long, difficult path.

# I don't doubt many tieflings would give in, they'll embrace the monster. It's easier. Society hates them anyway, it helps to justify their darkness. They might see what they do as justice, a twisted vile justice. But, if the world tormets them; then perhaps they'd see fit to show it what torment really is.

# But rather than evil, I think most tieflings are wretched tormented things, trapped in a world that feels as 'wrong' to them, as they do to it. Not wholly wrong, just like they are mostly human, they mostly belong there. But there's that tiny niggling, squirming thought in the back of their mind; 'You don't belong here.'
I believe that tieflings are good to those they deem worthy of it, that might be only one other person in the world. Perhaps a handful. But, everyone else they treat with a mask of indifference; expecting each comment made to them to be barbed and hateful. They'd perhaps relate most to half-orcs, not trust them. But relate.

Just because they're born of evil, doesn't mean they are. What it does mean, is that evil is the easy way out. And what's worse is, they're probably good at it.

~~

I hope some of this is useful, or thought provoking. Like I said this is my personal take on the race. But, that's what's great about them. Because each one, like the chaos of their blood is different. Has inherited different traits, or qualities. Has different personal demons, which are far, far more vivid and real than those you and I experience.

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Liz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 17:41 PM 

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I think a lot of that is what a tiefling would tell herself in order to make her feel better about evil stuff she was going to do anyway. I don't really buy "oh woe is me, society made me do it" at all, at least not on an OOC level. It's fully and completely awesome as an IC thought process, as the mental defense a tiefling erects between herself and her malice, so she doesn't have to face up to the awfulness of her deeds. But OOC, a tiefling isn't gray at all. They're envious, greedy, and cruel for the same reason a spider is born spinning webs. It's what comes naturally to them, instinctively. They don't have to be taught it or driven to it: their evil really was already there from the moment they were born, no matter how hard they might try to convince themselves otherwise.

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Strom
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 18:11 PM 

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Oh yeah, they're definitely born with their demons.
They'll tend toward the dark of things, to be sure. But, the mostly human element to their being is what makes them different than half-fiends; they're more human/elf/halfling/whatever than fiend.
It's why they're as much victims of their birth, as anyone they interact with. If the server's view on them is that they're evil to the core then, I can accept that.
But, personally I like to think there's some shred of humanity there that rages against it, and wins out sometimes.

I absolutely agree that tieflings will scheme naturally, will tend toward cruelty over kindness. That it's instinctual. Yes.
But, the fact they can feel guilt in it, shame. That isn't a demon, a demon would revel in it. There are some tieflings that absolutely do. But I think there are others that look at the blood on their hands after they've lost their temper, and feel nothing but sick with what looks back at them in the mirror.
Like you said, it's about getting in the head of your character.

If the whole thing came across as 'but injustice made me this way' then I clearly wasn't conveying my thoughts properly. What I guess I'm going for is; Don't just play a demon in sheeps clothing. Play a tormented soul, that torment doesn't have to be 'society'. It can absolutely, and often be themselves.

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Desimir Maric - Spellblade of Savras

Cassius Dain - Scribe of House Gulderhom

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Lascer
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 21 2015, 10:48 AM 

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I'm not feeling quite well spoken enough at the moment to respond to this myself... But perhaps this thread needs more lore tips on how to *respond* to a tiefling.

Over and over here, all that is weird gets ignored or accepted as normal. I think this does a severe injustice to anyone trying to play a tiefling/good-drow/anything-trying-to-buck-the-norm because bucking the norm is just So Damn Normal here. We treat these aberrations of nature as normal, not because our characters would, but because they are normal to us the player. And that hurts the story we are writing together.

Someone playing one of these freaks of nature is probably HOPING for the stereotypical responses, and it really screws with a character concept to not see any of it whatsoever. I can't speak for others, but I know I personally have dropped characters because no one cared they were weird, which totally killed the entire idea of their character growth. This isn't just an Amia thing, it's standard to multiplayer games where most people don't want to bother the player behind the character. Just trying to point out that most people playing one of these characters want to be 'bothered'.

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Liz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 21 2015, 16:46 PM 

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Ong, Lascer, so very that.

I played an Eilistraeen for a bit, and got very quickly bored with her. The only characters she ever encountered who even blinked at her were the sun-elfiest sun elves; everyone else she ever treated her no differently than if she'd been a sun elf herself.

I was going to type more stuff here, but I realized I would just be paraphrasing the stuff Lascer just said. Please, just go read his post again. :) Don't fall into the trap of doing a disservice to your fellow players just because you think you're being nice in avoiding doing a disservice to their characters.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 21 2015, 22:35 PM 

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To be fair, Eilistraeeans are a rather unique case on Amia Island specifically where one could expect to be treated fairly well.

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Liz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 21 2015, 22:39 PM 

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I'm pleased to report that despite your egregious trigger, Tormak, I have successfully rolled my Will save vs. having to go off on my customary "drow should be request only" rant. Suffice it to say that on Liz's Hypothetical Perfect Server, surface drow would be far more rare than on Amia.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 21 2015, 22:40 PM 

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Yups, I agree, but that's the hand we got dealt: Eilistraeeans have carved out a successful niche for themselves over the years, rather in line with the godess' dogma.

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Lascer
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 21 2015, 23:28 PM 

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Even with an understanding that there are a lot more 'good' surface drow around, for a valid IC reason, that doesn't make the entire history of the other 99% of the race disappear. Even if every single one of your characters friends are good drow, randomly meeting one on the road should be cause for some consternation. Hell, even if you ARE a good drow, you should be wary of the ones you meet (even more so honestly, which should say something for how everyone else responds).

Let's not derail this with drow however, though they fall into a similar enough situation to bear mentioning.

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Overneath
 
PostPosted: Mon, Aug 03 2015, 22:12 PM 

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Is being a tiefling essentially akin to some sort of dormant gene, in that a family could continue their line as normal (if strange) humans for some time before a tiefling is born? Further, could the tiefling's ancestor feasibly control, to some degree, where in the bloodline the tiefling is made?

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Liz
 
PostPosted: Mon, Aug 03 2015, 22:18 PM 

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Yeah, planar blood (any kind of planar blood: aasimar, genasi, feytouched) is almost exactly like a recessive gene. It skips generations, sometimes lots of generations, such that it's conceivable that a family's planar history might get lost in the depths of time. They might not even know any more that they're "carriers," and be shocked and appalled when their cute little human baby is born with horns and a tail. :)

I've never read anything about a fiend timing out the manifestation of the blood in the way you describe, but I don't know of any reason why a bit of planning and a bit of magic couldn't get that job done if a fiend really had its mind set on it.

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Strom
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 05 2015, 16:58 PM 

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^ This.

To use my character as an example.

Rook's parents are Sun Elves, basically. They had no idea one of them carried taint.

History

Sun Elves have a particularly dark and dangerous part of their history which the Daemonfey represent; Fey'ri to people who know the "race" which was spawned from this. They are also one of the reasons why Sun Elves became so puritan about Elven bloodlines.

House Dlardrageth was one of the most influential and widespread Houses in Arcorar .
They married into other families. They were a corner stone of Cormanthor.

They also did unspeakable things with fiendish pacts to try and seize the throne - and were eventually hunted down and destroyed for representing heresy of the highest order. The survivors of these culls were confined in Hellgate Keep until it's destruction, where a few escaped and became the Daemonfey we know today.

Their legacy, is essentially that sometimes you get elves from the arms of Houses like Reithel and Yesve who don't even know they have some distant shamed, forgotten and redacted relative; all trace of who they were and what they did was locked away, or destroyed utterly.
Not all taint in elven bloodlines comes from these guys, but if you're a Sun Elf from Cormanthor you run the very faint risk of being a carrier.

(Source: Lords of Darkness, Wizards of the Coast, ISBN-10: 0786919892, ISBN-13: 978-0786919895)

----

This naturally can cause all kinds of scandal and horror, as Liz mentions. So it's... potentially very interesting to get into, if you like that kind of RP.

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Rook - Tiefling Witch

Grumdur Bari'Var - Dwarven Raider

Desimir Maric - Spellblade of Savras

Cassius Dain - Scribe of House Gulderhom

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Tuneforeverfree
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 05 2015, 22:00 PM 

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http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Appearance_of_Tieflings This isn't a bad guide or whatever to grasp how tieflings should look.

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